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Thread: 358 express leverevolution

  1. #1
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    Default 358 express leverevolution

    I e-mailed hornady and suggested they consider a 358 loading for a marlin based off their new 308 express which could be necked up for the new 200 grain 35 caliber leverevolution which could be loaded in the marlin tube and would be quite an efficient thumper and better than the old 358 winchester which is highly under rated and way better than the anemic 35 remington which they load for now. How about a 358 express leverevolution in 200, 225, and 250 grain loadings in a marlin with a 20" or 22" in barrel????? I'd buy It!!

  2. #2

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    I can't see how it would be better than a 358 Winchester ballistically, but it would certainly trump the 35 Remington while bringing ballistics similar to the 358 Winchester into the Marlin line. All that said, I agree with you. Ive got three 358 Winchesters and a number of Marlins in other calibers. Crossing the line between them with a rimmed case would be kinda neat.

    How do you guess ballistics would compare to the former 357 Winchester? Perhaps that's the round you meant when you typed 358? That would be a pretty fair comparison, though I'd think Marlin would be a little nervous after the failure of the 357 Winchester.

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    Default 358 winny

    I think with todays better powders and the new leverevolution bullets that can be loaded in a tube and increase the fps the 358 winchester would be a better load compared to the original flat points and mild winchester loads. I've seen a trend towards these short action heavey hitters and with some good advertising I think the 358 winny would be well recieved as it is a very efficient round plus browning and ruger are chambering for it too. It would be better than the new 308 express and the new 338 federal plus it could handle heavier bullets better than the 338 federal. I think it would be a win-win for hornady and marlin, finally a big bore big game round that doesn't kick like a mule like the 45/70 and 450 and shoots flatter plus it can be loaded in a quick handling lever action. I'm sold!!

  4. #4
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    Default Singing Pigs & Ugly Ducklings

    This is an interesting thread with a lot of merit but there are some errors in concept and nomenclature that I feel compelled to correct.

    The 307 and 356 Winchester rounds were made for the Winchester angle eject model 94. These two rounds essentially are the 308/358 Winchester rounds with a 30-30 rim. They were meant to add some zap to traditional M94 rounds, the 30-30 and the 32 Spcl. Both of these new rounds were chambered in the Marlin 336 rifles as well as the M94 AE and were loaded to lower pressures than the original 308 and 358 rounds because of pressure limitations of the lever actions, but were higher pressure than traditional older rounds. (30-30 & 32 Spec).

    Hornady/Marlin introduced the 308 Marlin Express or what ever they call it to reintroduce the 307 Winchester but with a slightly shorter case to allow the use of their new lighter weight pointed soft tip bullets. The shorter length was necessary to allow the longer bullet and still cycle through the lever action of the Marlin M336. The ballistcs are different from the original 307 Winchester with a lighter bullet in spitzer form.

    There seems to be a market for these spitzers in a lever gun as if there was some advantage to such a bullet. If I compare ducks to swans the ducks will always have shorter necks and can never be swans. There is nothing but remanipulating of numbers to give the indication of one having an advantage over the other. It ain't so. Now if you like the soft tips for what ever reason, hey go for it, but don't get to thinking you have something special.

    And if you want to argue this point that would be welcomed but argue from a level field and from your own experience not from some marketeers hype and numbers. There is nothing magical about these bullets and the trajectory advantage comes from the higher velocity NOT from a piece of plastic on the tip. I have shot a lot of 125 grain bullets froma 30-30 and a 30 Herrett and guess what, they are faster than the 150 grainers.

    The calibers in question here are the 30-30 WCF, 307 Winchester and the 308 Marlin Express. The 30-30 was chambered in older guns and it's factory specs will always pail when compared to a modern round loaded to 50% higher pressure. The 307 would have been a great replacement for the 30-30 but it died on the vine. There was some success in the Leverution ammo for traditional lever calibers and obviously Marlin and Hornady saw some market potential in it for a "new" round and gave us the 308 Marlin.

    The rimmed 307/308 rounds are in strong brass and work very well for various calibers in the single shot pistols, at either as issued length or slightly shortened. If the Marlin Brass is strong, and it should be, it would be better adapted to 12" barrels in the Encore or such and to use the more effective "made for single shot pistol" bullets.

    The 30-30 hunter is not a long range hunter. He is a get up close with a light weight, light recoiling, quiet caliber rifle and make a clean kill with round nose soft point ammo. This type of hunting will not be more effective with a 300 Lapua or any glamorized ammunition for his old trusty 30-30 carbine. Nor can we make this old sow's ear into a silk purse any more than we can teach a pig to sing.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Default Thanks

    For clearing that up, I was thinking the 308 express was something else but what I was really meaning was for hornady to reintroduce the 358 winchester as I think it would be better recieved today as it wasn't before and would be a better option than the 308 express or even the 338 federal. The 30-30 is a nice round for the deer woods but I would prefer a 358 winny for bigger game.

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    Thumbs up Just another itch...

    T/C1,

    Yeah, I would agree. I got a little off the track there. The 358 cannnot be used in the 336 Marlin. As close as we can get to it is the 356 Wnchester. Nothing wrong with the 358 and it was born in a lever gun Model 88 Winchester, and the partner M100 autoloader. It has been chambered in the 99 Savage, a good rifle with very few failings, but a rather non traditional lever gun. Also the Browning BLR has been a popular base for the 358 WIN.

    A few very popular calibers from back in the day when the lever was THE gun would include the 38-55 Chambered in the Marlin M93 and Win. M94, the 33 WCF chambered in the Marlin 1895 and the Win. 1886. The 35 WCF chambered in the Win. model 1895. (along with it's parent caliber the 405 WCF)

    There were others but these mid thirties were the most popular and deemed most useful when a little extra thump was needed. In 1936 Winchester put all of its mid bore and big bore eggs in the new model 1886 rifle of 1935, the Model 71 Winchester. Marlin clinging to the only 35 lever the 35 Remington, in their 336 model. A round of limited usefulness. After Winchesters model 71 there weere no more 35 caliber guns with levers to fill this nitch or for many just an itch. The 348 with it's in between the popular 33 WCF and 35 WCF bullet size was considered the right size and nothing else was needed according to Winchester designers.

    This nitch was once again filled with the 356 Winchester back in the 1980's but it was, for what ever reason, short lived. Very short. Some speculate that a few dozen were made and six were sold in just a few years. Maybe it wasn't that bad but close. Marlin chambered a couple 336 rifles in the 356. I had one and it was a very good rifle. Function and punch was without want. Certainly a heavy cover deer and black bear rifle. But like most of the guns I've owned, it too was sold or swapped off for something different.

    I've used a lot of 35 caliber rifles and they are a lot of punch for what the shoulder catches. A good balance of power and portability. For some reason I have just not been that infatuated with the 35 bore size. The 35 has a cult like following in this country and they have sound reasons for this affair. I've just been more of a 338 guy and steer that way. One isn't better than the other except for some more specific application, but I just lean toward the 338's. I am building a rifle in the 358 Nukalpiaq however. I'm going to rebarrel my 338 WM Sako AV. Should be easy and make a good one.

    I think you and other would like to see a "358" in a traditional lever gun but, it's operating pressure will prohibit it's use in such guns. The 356 is a viable option, however. As for the Leverlution ammo, it would have to be in a "356 Marlin Express case but would work. It may happen but years ago I gave up in trying to get gun companies to make a better mouse trap. I now make my own. I get what I want that way, I fill that nitch and scratch that itch, about once a year now.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  7. #7
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    Default 358

    Murphy A guy told me awhile back there is a smithy back east that re barrels 336 marlins to the 358 winchester I havent seen one but would make a nice gun if it really does work. Dave

  8. #8

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    I think the guy you were talking to wsa yanking on your foot or esle sadly misinformed. Teh 358 Winchester is a rimless case, based on the parent 308 or military 7.62. depending on who you are talking to. All considerations of LOA and pressure aside, that rimless case simply isn't going to work in the Marlin.

    Is there a chance he was talking about rebarreling SAVAGE Model 99's rather than Marlins for 358 Winchester? That would be entirely viable.

  9. #9

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    I would love to have a Marlin in .358 Win but since they are tube fed, i dont think the bullets would ever be as effective, plastic tipped or not, as a normal spitzer bullet, such as used in the Browning BLR in .358 or the Ruger Hawkeye. Either way i would buy one!

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    Default 35 rem to 358 win

    I've read the article on the web about the gunsmith who rechambered the 336 35 remington to a 358 winchester, if you search it on the web you'll find it. If the 336 can't handle the preasure would a 1895?? I've always looked for a 99 in 358 winchester but never came across one but I hear their quite spendy.

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    Default svage99

    I had a savage 99 in 358 sold it!! It was not a good shooter tho. I have a BLR now but dont really like it. Does anyone know how hard it would be to turn a savage 99 in 300 savage into a 358?? I have one but it is the rotary mag. and I think the rotary would have to be milled out??

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