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Thread: Kenai River management solutions and/or options. . .

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    Smile Kenai River management solutions and/or options. . .

    Here's a new thread on which to post management solutions and/or options, which might provide a long-term view for use of the Kenai River and its ecosystem.

    Ideas. . . ? . . .


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    Exclamation Ban Non-Resident Guides

    They exploit the Kenai (and Alaska for that matter) for personal gain.
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    how to act in public

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    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug from Anchorage View Post
    Ban Non-Resident Guides.
    I think this is a fair start, but I wonder if such a move would withstand constitutional challenge (per Zobel/PFD ideology).

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    Default DOug

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug from Anchorage View Post
    They exploit the Kenai (and Alaska for that matter) for personal gain.

    Would you make that "ALL" non-resident guides to include hunting, transporting and what ever else falls under the category?

    What about no-resident workers? The ones that fly up to work on the pipeline (2-on-2 off, 4-on-4 off) or fishing boats for only a short time and then leave.

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    Member moose-head's Avatar
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    I like the idea of only residents guiding. I fear that lawyers would benefit more than anybody else from any attempt to impliment that though.

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    Member AKBassking's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Alaska Residents ONLY!

    A go on Alaska resident requirements for guiding!

    If you don't want to become a resident and stay a winter, then you should not be able to reep the benefits of our Great Land!

    ALASKAN SEA-DUCTION
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    Would you also require all commercial fishermen to be Alaska Residents as well?

    BTW, I to believe the requirements to be a resident are much different than the definition under the PFD rules. You can be a resident (legally) and not recieve a PFD.

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    Thumbs down KRSA's vision for the Kenai. . .

    Below is testimony by Kenai River Sportfishing Association board members before a house subcommittee back in April of this year. See the url below for the complete minutes of the meeting: http://www.legis.state.ak.us/basis/g...date2=20070424

    KRSA wants more access to the Kenai River, and KRSA wants the overwhelming bulk of Cook Inlet runs taken from the gill-net harvest and devoted to in-river sportfishing. Such radical reallocation would subject the Kenai River and its ecosystem to even more pressure, effectively destroy Cook Inlet's gill-net industry, narrowing the area's economic base, making it vulnerable to the vagaries of tourism and energy costs, and destroy ADF&G's ability to manage our fisheries for (maximum) sustained yield to the benefit of all Alaskans. Is KRSA's vision for the Kenai commendable or deplorable? Is money the final category? How much more pressure can the Kenai absorb?

    CHAIR NEUMAN asked about current legislation that provides for
    public access to rivers, streams, and banks.

    5:27:51 PM

    MR. GEASE indicated that the KRSA supports the legislation that
    would require the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) and the
    Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) to prioritize river
    systems that need public access, and to purchase and maintain
    easements from private property owners. He explained that it is
    important for legislators and fishery managers to be aware of
    the size and importance of sport fishing to the recreational
    economy and the quality of life for citizens. Fishing supports
    tourism and provides recreation and food for residents; however,
    without comprehensive economic data the central role of sport
    angling will be underestimated in public policy decisions.

    6:14:52 PM

    BOB PENNY, member, board of directors, Kenai River Sportfishing
    Association, informed the committee that the single most
    important act to affect tourism and economic development is to
    increase the amount of fish available in Cook Inlet. He stated
    that Cook Inlet is only allowed 15 percent of the harvest and
    the commercial take is 85 percent. He opined that fisheries
    management in Southcentral should be changed to give the
    priority to the public for personal use. Mr. Penny stated that
    surplus fish, after personal and tourism use, should be made
    available for commercial harvest.

    6:18:55 PM

    MR. PENNY added that, in 2004, the assessed value of private
    land on the Kenai River was $335 million dollars due to the fish
    in the river.

    6:27:57 PM

    MR. GEASE replied that in Cook Inlet sport fish return is ten
    times over the commercial catch. He recalled that the ex-vessel
    value of 20,000 king salmon caught in the commercial fishery in
    the set-nets generates about $500,000 of economic activity. Mr.
    Gease stated that the introduction of farmed fish can support
    the economics of the commercial industry. The commercial
    industry's focus on the quantity, not quality, of fish is in the
    process of reorientation so both industries can begin to produce
    a quality product. Mr. Gease concluded by saying that the
    rivers must have meaningful and predictable pulses of fish.



  9. #9
    Member AKBassking's Avatar
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    Default No, but

    Quote Originally Posted by yukon View Post
    Would you also require all commercial fishermen to be Alaska Residents as well?

    BTW, I to believe the requirements to be a resident are much different than the definition under the PFD rules. You can be a resident (legally) and not recieve a PFD.

    I think all the fish taken commercially should be required to be processed on land and in Alaska! We need to end the influence of the Northwest in Alaska.

    To become an Alaskan resident you must live in Alaska for 12 consecutive months.

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    Default A few thoughts on sport fishing on the Kenai..

    Various threads in this forum have highlighted many real or perceived consequences of the intense July sports fishery on the Kenai including: pollution, silting and habitat destruction, loss of big king DNA, the loss of fishing opportunity for those who cant bear the intensity of the fishery - Is there anyone who doesnít feel we are loviní the River to death? Full disclosure - I am part of the problem.

    So how do we save the river from ourselves?

    It starts with us. Those who love the river need to take personal responsibility to promote conservation and sportsman ethics. We can observe and obey existing fishing regulations and have the courage to challenge others to do so as well, resist gluttony when the run is ON, resist the urge to buy bigger and more powerful boats (note to self - learn to row), release trophy fish to complete their lifecycle, teach our kids respect for both nature and people. I am not preaching-I struggle with many of these urges myself. It would be a lot easier and more satisfying if we were all in it together.

    Lodges, guides and sport fishing organizations have incredible influence on guided anglers and are in a powerful position to promote sustainable fisheries practices. If we want to reduce congestion on the lower river during the Chinook fishery, we have to start marketing a different product. If a guide association were to emerge that adopted a low impact code of ethics e.g. releasing trophy fish, protecting spawning beds, offering more drift boat opportunities etc., I am sure that they could establish a unique marketing niche for the conservation minded sportsman that would set them apart from the crowd. You could help your clients understand that there is a lot more fishing opportunity on the Kenai Peninsula beyond the lower Kenai river in July. If you accept the slot limit as your standard you double the length of your king season. Trophy trout, gorgeous dollies, hordes of reds, giant silvers, all have plenty of appeal to those seeking a memorable Alaskan fishing experience and can be targeted beyond the last two weeks of July.

    Although I am sure many will disagree with me - I think the slot limit or a max retention length is key to reducing fishing pressure on the River in July. Guided and unguided anglers flock to the River in July with the hope/expectation that the will go home with a trophy. That thinking has got to change if we ever want to see reduced pressure. Arguments about the need to harvest these giants for food just donít stand up to scrutiny with the millions of harvestable fish in the river. With a season long slot limit in place, guided/unguided sport fishing effort might finally be free to spread out to other seasons and locations.

  11. #11
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    Default Commercial vs Sport fishing

    This has been a long, long battle between two user groups. I believe that "most" commercial operations are from outside Alaska or at least the processors are.

    I think ALL ALASKANS need to come together and turn their focus on the control the Northwest has on Alaska. This was the same during statehood. Washington and Oregon controlled the interests of Alaska, not Alaskans. Anchorage was just a suburb of Seattle according to those in Washington State.

    It is time to start restricting that influence from the L48. Alaska maybe the play ground of the rest of the L48, but that doesn't mean we should allow them to control our State's direction.

    Sport fishing guides should be required to be Alaskan residents and a limit on the number of guides should be implemented IF the science shows they are having a significant impact on the river.

    Commercial fishing operations need to be Alaskan based and the process of all fish and fish by products need to be returned back to Alaskan soil and taken off the offshore processors owned by outsiders. This would add local jobs and economic base for communities.

    Do I have all the answers, no, but I think this end fighting is going to do Alaska more harm than good. Alaskans need to help Alaskans and the State as a whole!

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  12. #12

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    I like the idea for the resident ony guides, but I do feel that it would open up a can of worms with the lawyers. Maybe what needs to get done is a bill to get intoroduced that would require all non-resident employees to pay a specialized tax forworking in Alaska. This would include all types of industries (oil field, construction & fishiing). Maybe we all need to start writting Mrs Palin and others in the state congress. If they are not going to spend the money that they eran here in state, it is time to start collecting some for our state.

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    Thumbs up Good ideas and more. . .

    Quote Originally Posted by AKBassking View Post
    It is time to start restricting that influence from the L48. Alaska maybe the play ground of the rest of the L48, but that doesn't mean we should allow them to control our State's direction.

    Sport fishing guides should be required to be Alaskan residents and a limit on the number of guides should be implemented IF the science shows they are having a significant impact on the river.

    Commercial fishing operations need to be Alaskan based and the process of all fish and fish by products need to be returned back to Alaskan soil and taken off the offshore processors owned by outsiders. This would add local jobs and economic base for communities.
    I think there is merit to the ideas expressed above. Could it be that without Uncle Ted's pork over the years we Alaskans might have a more entrepreneurial spirit, thinking more about our resources in terms of value-added, keeping more resource-based money in-state?

    Also, I have a question for fishNphysician and others concerned about conservation of big king salmon. It's been suggested on these forums that all retention of kings over 45" be prohibited and that all guides be limited to one trip per day.

    My question to Francis and others concerned about protecting the biggest of the big: If the two suggestions above were implemented, would that satisfy you, or would you still, as does KRSA, seek the dissolution of Cook Inlet's gill-net industry in order to get every last second-run king salmon into the Kenai River?

    Looking for some perspective. . .


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    Default Temporary fix

    Requiring Kenai Rv guides (or any other guides) to be Alaska residents will only paritally address the problems, but even that will only be temporary. If non-resident guides are not allowed to operate, their place will be quickly taken up by resident guides. If the demand for fishing guides on the Kenai remains high, but the supply of guides is suddenly reduced to only residents, what do you think will happen? Alaskan's aren't dumb. They will go where the money is. Non-resident guides will quickly be replaced by resident guides. Some of whom will be guiding for the first time. And the problems will remain, and they might get worse.

    Some folks would subscribe to the idea that resident guides will do a better job of protecting their resource since they live in Alaska all year. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Both residents and non-residents have done a very good job of trying to protect the Kenai and other Alaskan rivers from being over-exploited. In fact, Alaska residents have been known to complain bitterly about the folks from "Outside" trying to protect every tree and rock in Alaska. It's seems like those folks from Outside can be a bit overly zealous in their protection of Alaskan resources. I'm NOT saying that Alaskans aren't capable of protecting their own resources. I am saying that folks from Outside often provide more help than Alaskan residents sometimes want.

    So what's my answer to Marcus' question? Make the Kenai River drift boat only. All week, everyday, all the time. That will eliminate more problems on the Kenai than I care to count, including too many guides, too much traffic, too much habitat loss, poor angling experience, etc.
    But I'm not the first person on this BB to make that suggestion........

    How's that for some help from an "Outsider"?

  15. #15
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    Below is testimony by Kenai River Sportfishing Association board members before a house subcommittee back in April of this year. See the url below for the complete minutes of the meeting: http://www.legis.state.ak.us/basis/g...date2=20070424

    KRSA wants more access to the Kenai River, and KRSA wants the overwhelming bulk of Cook Inlet runs taken from the gill-net harvest and devoted to in-river sportfishing.....
    Let's review Mr. Penny's statement:

    BOB PENNY, member, board of directors, Kenai River Sportfishing
    Association, informed the committee that the single most
    important act to affect tourism and economic development is to
    increase the amount of fish available in Cook Inlet. He stated
    that Cook Inlet is only allowed 15 percent of the harvest and
    the commercial take is 85 percent. He opined that fisheries
    management in Southcentral should be changed to give the
    priority to the public for personal use.
    Mr. Penny stated that
    surplus fish, after personal and tourism use, should be made
    available for commercial harvest.
    1) Marcus, do you disagree that the Cook Inlet commercial harvest is 85% of the overall harvest (Actually, I do; I think Mr. Penny is understating the commercial harvest by several percentage points........)

    2) Marcus, if it is inappropriate to make personal use the priority in salmon management (in UCI, the Kenai District, or statewide), and since the overwhelming bulk of the harvest is now commercial (in UCI, the Kenai District, and statewide), can we then assume that the priority is currently commercial?

    3) Finally, is your position that this overwhelming bulk currently taken by the commercial side is appropriate statewide, including UCI and the Kenai District, which is also where the vast majority of personal use and sport pressure is occurring because of access difficulties throughout the rest of the state?

    ....Such radical reallocation would subject the Kenai River and its ecosystem to even more pressure, effectively destroy Cook Inlet's gill-net industry, narrowing the area's economic base, making it vulnerable to the vagaries of tourism and energy costs, and destroy ADF&G's ability to manage our fisheries for (maximum) sustained yield to the benefit of all Alaskans.....
    Some of those allegations may have merit, but that is unproven. I agree that more sport and personal use pressure will occur, but that has been happening anyway. Primarily it's because the rest of the state is costly/difficult to access, and the other nearby major drainage (Susitna River) has been allowed to go directly to Hell in a handbasket, and is still relatively unaccessible for the masses.

    I think some of your allegations regarding economic collapse aren't valid. The radical economic growth we've seen over the past 30 years in the area has been the result of tourism, sport fishing, and personal use fishing. Very little of it has been a result of growth in the commercial fishing industry.

    ....Is money the final category? How much more pressure can the Kenai absorb?
    I don't know. It appears that many folks don't like the pressure that has grown so exponentially at this point.

    Too late for that, partner. Ya'll should have nipped that in the bud decades ago. Now if you want a private river again, you've got to go into full reverse with marketing the place as a sport fishing playground, and get ugly with access restrictions.

    Good luck.

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    Mark, as to my "allegations," I don't recall mentioning "economic collapse" but only the possibility of increased economic risk factors. You are welcome to your own opinions.

    As to the relative harvest priorities of Cook Inlet fish resources, you're better advised to contact ADF&G if you disagree with Penny or the current status of the PU fishery.


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    Banning non resident guides would cripple the fishing industry, quite simply there are not enough good guides in Alaska and you simply cannot make enough money to live on guiding unless you are really lucky in the short season that alaska offers. The trick is make it s very expensive for non res guides to work, I.E. make it so there is more than a $60 guide liscence fee for non res, try something like $300. Thats what they do in the comm industry.

    There really should be some kind of limited entry system on the kenai before there are too many guides to implement it effectively. If would be nice to have a system like this throughout the state for all in the industry, then perhaps wages would increase to a respectable rate for those off the road system.

    A non resident income tax would be awesome however probably unconstitutional...

    In respects to the kenai sockeye management, the first thing that needs to happen is putting dipnetters in their place of behind sport fish and comm fish, which they are legally. Second place the comm guys on a schedual that isn't 4 12 hour periods weekly, make it like 2 24s or a 36 and a 24 allowing fish to enter the river during the weekends for the bulk of the sport P/U crowd to enjoy. And if emergency openings are to be made make them midweek. Its pretty clear that the mainstem kenai can support a lot more fish than the OEG allows so splitting time between sport and comm users seems fair too me, as long as midweek fishing time (for comm) is added appropriately.

    As far as habitat goes, we are going in the right direction with length and beam restrictions as well as phasing in 4 stroke motors on the drainage,

    stepping the HP up to 50 hp however seems stupid to me, maybe thats because I ran a jet boat with 1-4 people in it with a 25 hp jet motor all summer and got on step just fine. And the prop boat with the 25 with 4 people fishing comfortably only lost about 2 mph loaded vs unloaded.
    Call me old fashioned but things like carpeted floors and slick center consoles aren't nessasary.

    As for big kings I don't know the issue too well but I'll give it a shot, first set a quota for the commercial fleet once its reached stop the fishing, make not reporting kings punishable by permit loss. Second close from upstream of the moose river to skilak lake to king fishing during july. Third impose a slot limit for july until the sonar count gets to a certain point. Lastly stock late run kings in homer again! Put late run kings in ship creek! Stock some late run kings in Eklutna Tailrace, let there be kings in the month of july in new and different places to reduce pressure...
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

  18. #18
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    Mark, as to my "allegations," I don't recall mentioning "economic collapse" but only the possibility of increased economic risk factors.....
    I stand corrected.

    However, do you deny this point I made?:

    .....The radical economic growth we've seen over the past 30 years in the area has been the result of tourism, sport fishing, and personal use fishing. Very little of it has been a result of growth in the commercial fishing industry.....
    ....You are welcome to your own opinions.....
    Of course I am, just like you and everybody else.

    However, the three numbered questions in bold have more to do with facts than opinion. Let me repeat them here:

    1) Marcus, do you disagree that the Cook Inlet commercial harvest is 85% of the overall harvest (Actually, I do; I think Mr. Penny is understating the commercial harvest by several percentage points........)

    2) Marcus, if it is inappropriate to make personal use the priority in salmon management (in UCI, the Kenai District, or statewide), and since the overwhelming bulk of the harvest is now commercial (in UCI, the Kenai District, and statewide), can we then assume that the priority is currently commercial?

    3) Finally, is your position that this overwhelming bulk currently taken by the commercial side is appropriate statewide, including UCI and the Kenai District, which is also where the vast majority of personal use and sport pressure is occurring because of access difficulties throughout the rest of the state?
    .....As to the relative harvest priorities of Cook Inlet fish resources, you're better advised to contact ADF&G if you disagree with Penny or the current status of the PU fishery....
    I'm not sure if I agree with Penny's position or not, but I certainly agree with what he's saying regarding who's consuming the overwhelming bulk of the harvest today.

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    Default





    I'm not sure if I agree with Penny's position or not, but I certainly agree with what he's saying regarding who's consuming the overwhelming bulk of the harvest today.
    When the sport fishery, or the PU fishery can harvest that many harvestable fish lets talk... Remember the constitution requires that we maximize the use of the resource currently the only way to do that is through commercial fishing.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

  20. #20
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey View Post
    .....In respects to the kenai sockeye management, the first thing that needs to happen is putting dipnetters in their place of behind sport fish and comm fish, which they are legally.....
    Excuse me? "Legally"?

    Do you have some legal reference that states that personal use is of a lower priority than sport or commercial fishing?

    And are you stating that the economic activity inherent in both sport and commercial fishing has a priority over Joe Public filling his freezer for the winter?

    ....As for big kings..... Lastly stock late run kings in homer again! Put late run kings in ship creek! Stock some late run kings in Eklutna Tailrace, let there be kings in the month of july in new and different places to reduce pressure...
    Now your talking!

    As long as the department, public, world, etc focuses on the Kenai River, the pressure and political competition will only grow.

    What we're witnessing here are the fruits of a restrictive access policy. If you funnel everybody into one place, that place will be a social and political mess. This basic reality should be obvious to all.

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