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Thread: Four-Five-Eight

  1. #1
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    Default Four-Five-Eight

    Beats the big long title I was going to put to this thread!

    Well, not too long ago I had gotten a Ruger No. 1 in the limited run of .450-400 N.E. 3". Unfortunately, Ammo wasn't available at the time (except for overly expensive A-Square) and dies from RCBS run around $265 or so.

    Anyway, I got to thinkin' that even though it's a neat and useful cartridge in a rifle I've always wanted, I'd be better served by the same rifle in a caliber that is more prolific. Now, I've got a No.1 on order in .458 Win. Mag.

    I've already got a ton of brass and some Hornadys with dies on the way. Today, I just picked up 1lb. of RL-7 which seems to be a good powder for this cartridge, according to several manuals. I can also use some H335 and IMR-4320 that I've already got.

    Besides favorite loads, the main question I have is; has anyone shot one on this board? A No.1 in .458 that is. I stopped in this one little shop with a cranky 60ish proprietor who said "that was the biggest f---in mistake" I made. Nice. I suddenly remembered why I never go in his pitiful, understocked store, where he stands there smoking a pipe next to the primers and powder!

    He said that the recoil on a No.1 is way more than a properly stocked bolt action. I think I do recall reading about that in Clay Harvey's book on cartridges too. What experience do you guys have with these? I'm not worried I won't be able to handle it or anything, after all, it's not a Lott or a .577 T-Rex!

    One other thing he mentioned was that the bores on Rugers were oversize. Any truth to that? Another thing was, he said that he didn't like Rugers with front sights. He claimed that when the factory presses them on, they compress that part of the barrel and that when you run a jag through the bore you can feel it getting tighter near the muzzle because of it. Again, any truth?

    As much of a knob as the guy is, I don't want to discount the voice of experience. I don't think it'll deter me one bit 'cause there's just something about them No.1 Tropicals!

    Dave

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    Default

    The Brits never seemed to have a problem with large-bore cartridges. Don't listen to naysayers. Build or buy what you want. People say those sorts of things because they have deep seated issues they don't like to discuss.

  3. #3
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    Are you telling me that you traded your 450/400 3" for a 458 Winnie? ARGUHHGH!!! Please tell me you will sell me your old 450/400 No. 1.

    I don't know of the sight band restricting the barrel, in any caliber, and there's nothing wrong with the groove diameter of any Ruger I ever had in my hands.

    I will say the No. 1 stock isn't the best for recoil but neither is the Ruger bolt guns. The 458 barrel is pretty heavy and will soak up alot of the recoil. It is a good off hand rifle because of the stock shape and barrel weight. The 458 can be loaded up or down quite well. I have lots of good data but I won't let you have it unless we can talk about the 450/400. :-)
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  4. #4

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    Sounds like the old poop has other issues with Ruger and is simply mealy mouthing them.

    I've owned two 458 #1's. One was as-is and the other was rechambered to the 460 Wby. The first wasn't any better or worse than a Model 70 458 for recoil, and in fact was a whole lot more accurate than any Winchester I ever shot. It was probably the sinlge most accurate cast bullet gun I ever owned.

    I picked up the 460 rechamber cheap and found out why the owner was so happy to let it go. That thing gave me double vision after three shots! It wasn't happy with cast bullets, so I let it go to another friend who thought he relly needed it. He passed it on to another friend, who passed it on to another friend, who passed it on to another friend...... and so on. That thing is still out there floating around somewhere, so watch out.

    I wouldn't worry about the 458 #1 kicking noticeably more than any other 458. If you can shoot any of them, you can shoot it.

  5. #5
    Member jdb3's Avatar
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    I too owned one. I really did not like the factory loads, they seemed to kick more than my handloads. I used the 400 grain Barnes "X" bullets at about 2400 fps and the recoil was more than managable. It was a good shooting rifle but I wanted a Sharps more so the No 1 went to another. Jim

  6. #6

    Arrow No 1 458

    I have shot several different 458s including 5 different No 1s I can tell no difference in the accuracy department in any of them they are just like any rifle all have their preferences in ammo but will all shoot minute of dangerous game.Murphy is right about Rugers stock design they don't handle recoil as well as some others but it still doesn't kick any harder than a 3 inch mag Rem 870 try ducks and geese all day with one of those and you hardly ever hear anyone talking about how hard a shotgun kicks but the next day if you look at your shoulder you can tell.The nicest No 1 I shot for a customer had been magnaported and he had replaced that piece of hard rubber Ruger used for a recoil pad with a Sims vibration pad thats the new pad Remington is now using on all their hard kickers shotguns and all and it really is a great pad.The No 1 is a real classy rifle and I think you will like it ok just my 2 cents worth good shooting..Ronnie

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    Default

    Thanks for the replies guys. Murphy, I haven't yet decided to get rid of the .450-400. I know if I do that I'll regret it down the road! If I do, you get first dibs, OK? Now, about those pet loads...

    Dave

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    Well, rather than start a new thread, I decided to continue this one. I got the .458 a couple days ago and couldn't wait to work up some full-house loads so I went to the local Scheel's and picked up a box of Winchester 510 gr. soft points.

    I was rather shocked that the recoil (off hand) wasn't that bad at all! Makes me think anybody who ever complained about it was a tad recoil sensitive. I also decided to hold on to the .450-400 for at least a while, which led me to also pop for a box of factory Hornady soft point 400 grainers. Again, not too bad at all for recoil! One thing that kinda has me puzzled is when I watched the short video of Craig Boddington talking up the cartridge and then shooting it (on the Hornady site, under 'new' stuff), why he rocks back so much when he shoots it. Makes it look much more severe than it is.

    http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=483

    For a second, I thought..."maybe I should've gotten the .458 Lott instead"...but I really like the fact that brass is more available and I have a wider variety of brass (namely Win.) to use. Besides, most shots will be between upper end .45-70 power levels and mid-range .458 Win. levels, so the added case capacity of the Lott would be wasted more often than not!

    Still, now that I've conquered the recoil of the mighty .458 Win. as well as the .416 Rem., .450-400 3", .375 H&H and .375 Ruger, I'm on the lookout for something more intense. Prolly not as intense as the .460 Weatherby or the .577 T-Rex though!

    Thanks for taking the time to read this. Comments are welcome. Your own big bore experiences and/or stories as well!

    Dave

  9. #9

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    Rugers are very nice and well made rifles and I really like them, I sure have owned enough of them in the past, bolt and #1's. The 458 has more than proven itself with the right bullets.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  10. #10

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    Mine bites pretty good from the bench, unless I raise the rest high enough to shoot upright rather than hunched over like most shooters with smaller calibers. That can be important for long strings when testing loads for accuracy. Best is a standing benchrest if you can find one, which allows you to benchrest loads while standing fully upright.

    If you're looking for more shoulder bruising, track down some of the real heavyweights in 458. Can't recall right now where I got them, but I once had a box of 600 grain spitzers. Ouch.

    If you cast your own, know someone who does, or buy them online, try cast bullets through the 458. That straight case is ideal for them, and I haven't met a 458 that didn't shine with them. We're talking ragged hole groups at 100 yards. Reduced loads will give you something on the order of standard 45-70 performance, ideal for deer and head shots on small game. Hunting either will really pay dividends when you use full snort loads for big game.

  11. #11
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    Yes, I'm sure firing from the bench will be a different story but for sighting in I've got one of those Shoulder Shield rests (kindof a clone of the Lead Sled from Cabela's that I got on sale last Christmas time for only $80). I was wanting to just shoot from a likely field position first and found it too be more than tolerable.

    Nitroman is right, them Brits have been shooting big boomers for well over a century...REALLY big boomers! Now, no offense to them but if they can handle recoil, surely I can too. I guess if the French made lots of biggies, now that would surprise me! Just kiddin' of course.

    Dave

    P.S.- BB. I like your terminology; full snort. I'm gonna borrow that one, OK?

  12. #12

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    Well, that 458 will be a "FULL SNORT" you can count on that, especially with the big bullets.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  13. #13

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    Yeah, you can use it for sure, but I'm not the first. I heard it on the ranch as a kid when a bull ran over me in the chutes. The old hand dusting me off and squeezing air back into my lungs managed to say between laughs: "That one surenuff came full snort didn't he, kid!"

    I like to think of my full powered loads hitting big game about as hard as that bull hit me.

  14. #14
    Member .338-06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKWannabe View Post
    For a second, I thought..."maybe I should've gotten the .458 Lott instead"

    Dave
    If you do have second thoughts about getting a Lott, it should be both easy and inexpensive to have the No1 converted.

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