Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Expanding Gas Arrows

  1. #1
    Member JOAT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Soldotna, ALASKA since '78
    Posts
    3,720

    Question Expanding Gas Arrows

    What is an "Expanding Gas Arrow"? It has been specifically restricted by the AK hunting regs for as long as I can remember (at least 25 years - probably much more), so it must have been important enough to specifically ban. A Google search for these words turns up only references to the actual text of the AK hunting regs with nothing appearing anywhere else on the internet regarding such a device. Anyone have a clue what this device is/was?

  2. #2
    Member JustinW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Norcal
    Posts
    130

    Default

    I'm guessing that they might be referring to something like a powerhead or bang stick used for spearfishing. Perhaps this is saying you can't have an arrow with this point on it. Thats about the only thing I can think of as an expanding gas arrow.

  3. #3
    Member bushrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Now residing in Fairbanks from the bush
    Posts
    4,363

    Default

    I've read of arrows filled with CO2, that upon shooting the gas expands or pressurizes, and then exits out the nock, thereby increasing the range/speed of the arrow. Not sure if this is your expanding gas arrow.

  4. #4
    Member JOAT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Soldotna, ALASKA since '78
    Posts
    3,720

    Default

    That was about the only thing I could logic out as well. A device which uses a compressed gas to launch an arrow, such as a speargun. But who would use a speargun to take big game? It makes you wonder what occurance or thought process caused them to place this specific restriction in the regs.

  5. #5
    Supporting Member AFHunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Registered Guide, AK
    Posts
    658

    Default I was wondering the same thing

    I have read that many times also. I could not figure out what would be used with exploding gas arrows. Sounds like they are getting prepped for the future of technology in hunting for the year 3007.

  6. #6
    Moderator hunt_ak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wasilla--Cantwell Transplant
    Posts
    4,600

    Default

    I've only seen these on ebay before. The post said they are pressurized with air to something like 300 psi. They have a valve in the shaft that when the arrow enters the animal, it releases all the high pressure gas and essentially creates a HUGE wound and bleeds the animal out super fast. As far as I know, they have nothing to do with propulsion or distance.

    EDIT: After posting did some googling and found this site. There are yellow tabs and if you click discription it gives detailed info on how it works.

  7. #7
    Supporting Member AFHunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Registered Guide, AK
    Posts
    658

    Question Has anyone used one???

    Has anyone ever used this device? I am not sure how effective this mechanism would be. Sounds like it is a bunch of hot air to me.

  8. #8

    Default

    I have shot a bow actively for over 50 years and it amazes me what people will do to try to circumvent all of the process of shooting the bow or except the lethality of a sharp plain broadhead. Archery is a thousands of year old skill that feed us to this point quite fine with little change in materials or methods till the last few years. Now if it isn't technicaly improved to remove the human element or skill, people just don't believe it works. It is a shame more hunters don't get to experience the pride of putting a shaving edge on their self made Lethal arrows and taking beig game as the hunters before us did, using our natural abilities. Allways wanting a short cut or gimmick. You get out of something what you put in it.

  9. #9

    Default

    I hear you bodak. Thats why I cant put down my 57lb longbow. Shoots alot better that I can do with it. Get some big ole 3 blade magnus snuffers in 145gr and my homemade arrows. Talk about some fun now!

  10. #10
    Moderator hunt_ak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wasilla--Cantwell Transplant
    Posts
    4,600

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bodak View Post
    I have shot a bow actively for over 50 years and it amazes me what people will do to try to circumvent all of the process of shooting the bow or except the lethality of a sharp plain broadhead. Archery is a thousands of year old skill that feed us to this point quite fine with little change in materials or methods till the last few years. Now if it isn't technicaly improved to remove the human element or skill, people just don't believe it works. It is a shame more hunters don't get to experience the pride of putting a shaving edge on their self made Lethal arrows and taking beig game as the hunters before us did, using our natural abilities. Allways wanting a short cut or gimmick. You get out of something what you put in it.
    I definitely hear where you're coming from, but is it necessarily a bad thing that people didn't want to conform to just "stick and string"? Having people who think "outside the box" and come up with really ingenious ways to improve.....well just about anything is most of the time a plus in my book! Heck, we wouldn't have the computers to write on this forum if people weren't willing to look at new ways of doing things....

  11. #11
    Member JOAT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Soldotna, ALASKA since '78
    Posts
    3,720

    Default

    This patent is too new to be the reason why this prohibition is in our game regs, but here is an "expanding gas arrow"...

    http://www.google.com/patents/US6186913

    Note that the claim is that it explosively releases cold CO2 into the thorax upon impact, which is supposed to cause the lungs to collapse, induce cardiac v-fib, and cause a tension pneumothorax. Additionally, it releases a fluorescein dye that is supposed to taint the blood and make tracking the animal with a black light as easy as Arnold stalking the Predator through a rain forest.

    As a medical guy, I'd like to go ahead and call total BS on the cold CO2 causing cardiac v-fib. There could not possibly be enough thermal heat transfer with a little bit of CO2 to affect the heart that way. All the blood pumping through the heart from the hot leg muscles would have to be chilled considerably to bring the animal's body temperature into the hypothermia range for this to even be a possibility.

    You can't collapse a lung by punching a hole through the chest wall and into the lung followed by an abrupt introduction of a high pressure gas from the inside. The outer wall of the lung is "stuck" to the inner wall of the chest at the time the arrow penetrates. Only way to collapse a lung would be to introduce the pressurized air between those two layers. Don't see how this could possibly be done with a moving arrow that doesn't know where these two layers come together. Introducing that pressure inside the lung will actually hold the lung open until the pressure vents out the upper respiratory system to the nose.

    Finally, a tension pneumothorax means that a lung has already collapsed and that the area outside the lung is filling with air during each respiration but the penetrating hole in the chest wall is either sealed or it is acting as a one-way valve and not letting air out. When the pressure inside the chest wall builds up high enough, it puts pressure on the other lung and then upward into the airways until respiration is no longer possible. This is hardly a process that can be accomplished instantaneously with the introduction of some high pressure CO2 inside the lung or torso.

    While the collapsed lung and even a tension pneumothorax are possible outcomes from a penetrated chest (by arrow or bullet), a little gas explosion of CO2 during the penetration of this expanding gas arrow probably is not going to have a measurable change in the onset or progression of those problems.


    Sorry to dig up such an old thread, but until stumbling onto this, I still have never seen an "expanding gas arrow" and don't see why they are specifically prohibited in our AK Game Regulations.
    Winter is Coming...

    Go GeocacheAlaska!

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    1,461

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hunt_ak View Post
    I definitely hear where you're coming from, but is it necessarily a bad thing that people didn't want to conform to just "stick and string"? Having people who think "outside the box" and come up with really ingenious ways to improve.....well just about anything is most of the time a plus in my book! Heck, we wouldn't have the computers to write on this forum if people weren't willing to look at new ways of doing things....
    Uh-huh. And now our youngsters can't write cursive, since it's no longer being taught in schools. Progress? I think not. We've already succeeded in taking the romance, and much of the challenge, away from bow-and-arrow hunting. I won the First Alaska Archery Tournament with a 70-lb split bamboo longbow and home-made wood arrows. And it has filled the larder quite well over the years. While I won't argue against improvements, I still think the bow-and-arrow should remain a rather primitive weapon. As to the legality of the gas arrow, I suspect that a good lawyer could prove that it's outside the Alaska statutes, and is therefore quite legal. My $0.02, of course . . .

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •