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Thread: Powder for Barnes TSX

  1. #1

    Default Powder for Barnes TSX

    I have been reloading for my 7mm for a couple of months now, mostly with 162g Hornady's and 175g Sierra's and IMR 4831. My main goal other than save money is to work up to a good round for moose. Since I seem to get better groups with the heavier bullets I plan on going with the Barnes 170g TSX. My question is should I stick with the 4831 or try a slower burning powder like 7828? Is there any difference at all when shooting the same weight bullet but with different construction as with the all copper design of the TSX to the jacketed design of the hornady.

  2. #2
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    Default Size matters.......

    7mm what? Case size is more important than bullet type when selecting a powder. Heavier bullets usually like slower powder.

    Oh, yeah. I do remember your 7 mag. Stick with the 4831 or RL-22 with the 160 TSX, just reduce the charge a couple grains to start.
    Last edited by Murphy; 08-15-2007 at 16:42.
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  3. #3
    Member alaska bush man's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Reloader 22

    In my 7mm Mag Reloader 22 with 160gr TSX and Nosler Accubond perrformed best.........H4831 was second best.


    The 160gr Nosler Accubond was the most accurate of the two!
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  4. #4

    Default

    It's a rem mag. I went to Mt. View this afternoon to pick up the bullets but all they had were 160g. From what your saying Murphy, the 160g will have enough mass to do a number on Mr. moose? Also I don't have a Barnes manual, will it be safe to use data from the ones I do have?

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    Default

    You may be able to squeeze 100fps more using RL25 instead of RL22 and get better burn effeciency as well. However, I agree that H4831 and RL22 are among the best choices.

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by senecanation View Post
    Also I don't have a Barnes manual, will it be safe to use data from the ones I do have?

    The Data from older books are fine. The difference is that the TSX have less bearing inside the barrel. So basically your ballistics wont be the same as the older book shows, the TSX will shoot flatter due to higher velocity.

  7. #7

    Default Oh *%&#, I Think I Screwed Up

    I found an old Barnes book at a friends house last night and figured that it would be sufficient for loading the TSX. The max load said 66 grains of H4831 as did the speer book for the same weight bullet. So I loaded at 65grains thinking that I was within the recommended criteria. Well today at work I had some time to do some more research on the barnes and hogden websites and to my dismay I found the max load for a 160 grain bullet is 60 grains! I think I screwed up big time. Any recommendations on where I could get a good bullet puller?

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by senecanation View Post
    I found an old Barnes book at a friends house last night and figured that it would be sufficient for loading the TSX. The max load said 66 grains of H4831 as did the speer book for the same weight bullet. So I loaded at 65grains thinking that I was within the recommended criteria. Well today at work I had some time to do some more research on the barnes and hogden websites and to my dismay I found the max load for a 160 grain bullet is 60 grains! I think I screwed up big time. Any recommendations on where I could get a good bullet puller?

    You cannot use Same bullet weight info from other bullets because they do not produce pressures as high as the Barnes in same weight.

    If the bullet you loaded is a Barnes TSX #28446 and the Firearm is 7mm Rem Mag. with a 24" barrel, then 65 grns of H 4831 is very near Maximum and would produce 2940 fps, give or take a 50 fps. If all of the cartridges you loaded are exactly at 65 and not over any, keep them and load some at lower powder amounts and see how they shoot. I'm not saying they are absolutely safe but they may be right at your max and may be ok to shoot. MAY!! If your using a powder throw then I'd pull them all and start over. If your using a digital scale or weigh every load you should be ok. When loading at max loads you should be very precise as just a few 10's of a grain can take you to high. Keep a close eye on the primers of fired cartridges and stop if they start flattening on you.

    Again, If you know the cartridges you loaded are RIGHT at 65, Keep them but load and shoot lower loads before you use them to make sure you are not going to high. I'd start around 62 and work up from there. And that is IF the bullet and powder are as mentioned above.

    The load Data I'm using is from Quickload and has proven very accurate for nearly all my loads Ive worked up but it is not perfect and I'm only making a suggestion here. That was my Cover My &** statement hehe.

    Another good resource is www.loaddata.com. You pay a yearly fee but it has thousands of loads for most every caliber

    As for bullet pulling, I put the cartridge into my press and push it up through the hole without a die in place. Then I grab the bullet with the wire cutting part of some #9 linemans pliers and push the handle back up. Works great with a RockChucker.

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    Default

    The Barnes no. 3 manual lists a max of H4831 as 64.5 grs and IMR 4831 as 62.0 grs both give velocity of about 2850. I don't know why such difference in the two powders.

    If you have 65.0 grs loaded and it is with the TSX it will be ok, I wouldn't pull them. If it is with the XFB's try 62.0, 63.0 and 64.0 and if ok shoot the 65.0 gr load. Just look for sticky bolt lift. A hammer type kinetic puller is a good addition to the loading bench it allows you to reuse all components.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  10. #10

    Default

    Thankfully right before we started to fill the cases I turned the dial back about a quarter of a turn just to be safe. So what we had originally weighed at 66 grains was actually 64 grains. Fortunately neither of us who were loading had touched that dial since last night so I had my buddy weigh a couple of charges. They averaged around 64 grains so wheewh..... I think I'll be safe. I guess I should invest in a current Barnes book.

    Looking back on all this brings up another question. Why is it that from Barnes books from 25 years ago to the current one and from data online, the recommended grain weight with the same powder keeps getting lighter? Is this a liability issue with Barnes? I am curious to see if any of the other bullet manufacturers' data have been the same way throughout the years.

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    Default

    A lot of what you are seeing in changes are bullet refinements. The TSX for instance will produce less pressure than a normal X of same weight. So it takes less powder to gain the same velocities as a normal X when using the TSX. So for this example it may sound like you can increase powder so you can get even more velocity right? In some cases yes but then many bullets are not made for velocities over a certain speed. Or the load data in the book may be stating the highest pressure for whatever make/model in that caliber is currently on the market.

    The factory loads for a 45/70 for instance is kept conciderably low so the old trapdoor style single shot 45/70's can shoot the factory loads.

    Max Velocity for a specific bullet can also be an issue. My wildcat 405 can push a Hornady 300gn spitzer at 2800+ fps. However at that velocity, Hornady tells me not to shoot anything under 200 yrds or the bullet will come apart at that speed on impact. Might not apply here but the idea is that there may be a max velocity issue involved with the powder charge differences or maybe a combination of all of this.

    Refinements in materials may also have evolved into harder copper than older bullets from barnes. Harder bullets produce higher pressures so they would then reduce powder to bring it back down.

    Then again.... I could be wrong.

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    Default Barnes

    You might try looking at Barnes' web site. They have some freebe listings of the 7mm. (Click on Technical then click on data) It seems somewhere they have a section on developing loads for the XXX by starting from the X data.

    I think they are working on a new book that covers the TSX bullets. I'm going to wait a bit before I upgrade loading books from them.

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