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Thread: .411 Hawk Bullets

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    Default .411 Hawk Bullets

    Does anyone know about the Hawk 400 gr. .411 bullet? They mention it in the site at Z-hat regarding .411 Hawk ballistics but don't mention selling such a creature.

    The whole reason for looking into this is that I had an idea that a rimless cartridge for bolt action rifles with the equivalent power/momentum of the .450-400 3" N.E. (.330 S.D./4k ft.lbs energy) would be a good thing. The .411 Hawk seems to fill the bill to a tee, with the added benefit of being able to use any existing '06ish rifle and have a magazine capacity of up to 5!

    Only thing is, on the Z-hat site, they only show one load for the 400 gr. bullet, most other loads are for 300 gr. with a few for the 325 North Fork and 350 gr. A-Frame (does Swift still make this?).

    Dave

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    Dave,

    Look down a bit at the 416 Ruger thread. There is some info on a similar cartridge that is now in the process of having a reamer made. This one is made on the 376 Steyr case with some changes. It will duplicate the 450/400 ballistics at 58,000 psi, in a good bolt gun. Of course the Ruger could be necked to .411 or .416 for more horse power on a 30-06 length action.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Quote Originally Posted by AKWannabe View Post
    Does anyone know about the Hawk 400 gr. .411 bullet? They mention it in the site at Z-hat regarding .411 Hawk ballistics but don't mention selling such a creature.

    The whole reason for looking into this is that I had an idea that a rimless cartridge for bolt action rifles with the equivalent power/momentum of the .450-400 3" N.E. (.330 S.D./4k ft.lbs energy) would be a good thing. The .411 Hawk seems to fill the bill to a tee, with the added benefit of being able to use any existing '06ish rifle and have a magazine capacity of up to 5!

    Only thing is, on the Z-hat site, they only show one load for the 400 gr. bullet, most other loads are for 300 gr. with a few for the 325 North Fork and 350 gr. A-Frame (does Swift still make this?).

    Dave
    I have a 411 Hawk that Zeglin built for me on a Winchester 1895.

    I've never cared a lot for the Hawk bullets, they just seem awfully soft to me, at least the few versions I have tried, did.

    I have loaded and shot some of the Woodleigh 400 grain bullets and like those a lot better. I have not killed anything with them yet...

    The Swift 350 grain A-Frame is a production run that Swift makes once every blue moon. They don't make a lot of them when they do, either. They are excellent bullets. I hoarde every box I can get from them.

    North Fork makes an excellent 360 grain bullet and 300 grain bullet. Unfortunately the 360 grain is just a tiny bit too long to allow proper seating due to the slanted magazine box in the 1895 Winchester and get the velocity I want. The 300 grain is excellent.

    If you are going to build this rifle on a bolt action, I would personally recommend something in the 416 caliber. The bullet availability in 0.410-0.411" is just too aggravating and expensive. When I had mine built, Barnes made their X bullets in 300, 325, 350 and 400 grains. Swift made their 350 grain. North Fork had the 300, 325 and were introducing the 360 grain. There were several bullets from Hornady available. Of course, there was also the Woodleigh.

    Now, there is:
    Barnes 300 grain X
    North Fork 300 grain & 360 grain
    Swift 350 grain (if you can find them and it's a very sporadic run)
    Woodleigh 400 grain
    Hornady 300 grain and I'm assuming they'll have a 400 grain soon.

    Still, those bullets are hard to find and expensive when you can find them. They aren't as easily accessible as the 416 caliber bullets from the same manufacturers.

    Like Murphy recommended, I'd go with the 416 Ruger, if I were you. The 411 Hawk is a good cartridge, but the availability of .416" bullets and the extra fps give the 416 Ruger the edge over it for a bolt action rifle, IMO.

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    Thanks for the replies, guys.

    I have been following the .416 Ruger thread, with great interest. I guess the reasons I was thinking of the Hawk on '06 based brass was the ease of obtaining brass as well as efficiency and less recoil in a standard 7 1/2 lb rifle.

    I am not looking for a 5k ft./lb. rifle here, just a 4k ft./lb. rifle. In all honesty, I don't really need it since I've got the No.1 in .400 Jeffery and a .375 H&H. For 5k ft./lb., I'd rather go with the .400 H&H. It does everything I need it for with low pressure and easy brass availability/cost. Yes, the .411 bullets aren't as numerous or common as the .416's, but there isn't really that much difference around where I live. Either way, I need to order 'em.

    I personally don't have a problem with belted magnum brass. The only thing I was thinking of was rimless, for use in a bolt action. There IS a method to the madness!

    This isn't really all that well put together...my points that is. I guess the reason for a .411 (Hawk and .400 H&H) is because of the fact that I recently got the .400 Jeffery and simply wanted to have a bolt gun with the same power range and another with more "omph", all while using the same 400 gr. Woodleighs/Hornadys.

    Clear as mud, huh?

    Dave

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    If you really want a .411" bullet shooting bolt action, go for it. Don't let anyone talk you out of it. I'd place an order with Mike Brady at North Fork for some of his bullets and never look back. They really are that good. Kinda spendy, but good stuff.

    http://www.northforkbullets.com/bullets.htm

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    Thanks for the link D, very good looking bullets at Northfork! Actually, I'm just thinkin' about it right now, not THAT serious yet. Heck, I may just say "forget it" and just get a .458 that I can load up and down with outstanding bullet availability.

    Murphy's idea of the .410/.411 on the .375 Steyr case is intriguing. I guess I just didn't like the slightly rebated rim and the larger diameter case that's not as common. If I were to go that route (larger case dia.), I'd consider simply going with a Taylor except loaded with .411 instead of .416 bullets. For lower velocity, I suppose simply loading down would do (to achieve .400 Jeffery velocity/energy) and it should be able to come close enough to .400 H&H on the high end to be acceptable for use on Buffalo and such.

    Don't mind me, just letting my mind wander a little!

    Dave

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    I just heard from Hornady today and they are/will be making a 400 grain soft point and FMJ in .410" diameter. This is correctly sized for (most) 450/400 double guns and their loaded ammo is designed to regulate in any double, not just for the Ruger #1 rifle. Hornady ballistics for the 450/400 3" ammo is 400 grains at 2050 fps. That is actually a little slow for a few of the doubles I've seen but they usually keep shots level anyway they would just regulate a little farther out at that velocity. Anyway the 400 grain .410" bullets are coming and should be reasonably priced. I think the 376 Steyr based wildcat will achieve that 2050 fps velocity with this bullet for about 3800 ft.lbs of energy.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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