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Thread: New Tier II Salvage Rules, Plans/Ideas??

  1. #1
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    Default New Tier II Salvage Rules, Plans/Ideas??

    -You may not use an Off Road Vehicle (ORV) over 1500 pounds or an aircraft.
    -You must salvage the head, hide, heart, liver, kidneys, and all edible meat.
    -You must cut the antlers or split the skull plate of your TC566 caribou.
    -During the fall season, 10 Aug. to 20 Sept., meat of the front quarters, hind quarters, and ribs must remain naturally attached to the bone until transported from the field or processed for human consumption.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I don't like these new rules, but I guess we're stuck with'em, so how about plans or ideas as to how to use, (or dispose of), unwanted Caribou Parts?

    Personally, I've never used the kidneys, the hide, or head, and only kept the rack if it's big enough. The following questions arise.

    Packing them out wouldn't be much of a burden, but I would not eat the kidneys, sooo?

    What to do with the hide?

    What to do with the (Split) head?
    And, the rack, if it's not worth keeping? (Is there meat on the head?) Seems like you would want to skin it, then split it then carry it out? Then what?

    Anyone, how do you plan to comply? This is a serious question. I'm not just trying to stir up complaints, although I will entertain them.
    Thanks, for your input.
    Smitty of the North
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  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    -You may not use an Off Road Vehicle (ORV) over 1500 pounds or an aircraft.
    -You must salvage the head, hide, heart, liver, kidneys, and all edible meat.
    -You must cut the antlers or split the skull plate of your TC566 caribou.
    -During the fall season, 10 Aug. to 20 Sept., meat of the front quarters, hind quarters, and ribs must remain naturally attached to the bone until transported from the field or processed for human consumption.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I don't like these new rules, but I guess we're stuck with'em, so how about plans or ideas as to how to use, (or dispose of), unwanted Caribou Parts?

    Personally, I've never used the kidneys, the hide, or head, and only kept the rack if it's big enough. The following questions arise.

    Packing them out wouldn't be much of a burden, but I would not eat the kidneys, sooo?

    What to do with the hide?

    What to do with the (Split) head?
    And, the rack, if it's not worth keeping? (Is there meat on the head?) Seems like you would want to skin it, then split it then carry it out? Then what?

    Anyone, how do you plan to comply? This is a serious question. I'm not just trying to stir up complaints, although I will entertain them.
    Thanks, for your input.
    Smitty of the North

    I haven't looked at the rules closely myself, but based on what you posted, it does not seem to say that you have to salvage the antlers, just cut them. Seems like you could just cut them off of the head and salvage the head if you did not want the antlers.

    There really isn't any meat in the head, however there is the neck meat that makes decent hamburger.

    I guess any unwanted parts (head, kidney, hide) can be deposited at the dump, but you might want to double check with ADF&G before disposing of them.

  3. #3
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    -You may not use an Off Road Vehicle (ORV) over 1500 pounds or an aircraft.
    -You must salvage the head, hide, heart, liver, kidneys, and all edible meat.
    -You must cut the antlers or split the skull plate of your TC566 caribou.
    -During the fall season, 10 Aug. to 20 Sept., meat of the front quarters, hind quarters, and ribs must remain naturally attached to the bone until transported from the field or processed for human consumption.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I don't like these new rules, but I guess we're stuck with'em, so how about plans or ideas as to how to use, (or dispose of), unwanted Caribou Parts?.....
    From the definitions, on page 23 of the Alaska Hunting Regulations:

    ....Salvage - to transport the edible meat, heart, liver, kidneys, head, skull or hide, as required by statute or regulation, of a game animal or wild-fowl to the location where the edible meat, heart, liver; or kidneys will be consumed by humans or processed for human consumption in a manner which saves or prevents the edible meat from waste, and preserves the head, skull or hide for human use.
    Apparently, none of it can be disposed of except the bones. The definition quite clearly states that edible meat must be consumed by humans or processed for human consumption, and the head, skull, or hide must be preserved for human use.

    Note that antlers aren't mentioned............

  4. #4
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Not sure how it would fit within the rules, but as a biology teacher I would be happy to take any hearts, livers, or kidneys off the hands of people who don't want them. I brought a caribou heart into my classroom last year while teaching the cardiovascular system and it really helped my students understand how the blood flows through the various chambers of the heart.

    I'll keep the heart of whatever I manage to harvest this year, but a number of other teachers in my building inquired as to if I could get one or more for them as well. As for the liver and kidney, there's not as much to look at, but it wouldn't hurt to have some of those on hand as well, especially for my friend's anatomy and physiology course.

  5. #5
    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    What to do with hide:
    Caribou hide can be easily staked out and dried for future use. They make great sleeping pads when just dried (untanned). They can be tanned as well, hair on or off, to use as leather or fur, for mukluks etc.
    What to do with head:
    Most parts of the head are edible, including tongue, cheeks, eyes, and any upper neck meat. The cheeks, eyes, upper neck meat make a wonderful fatty soup (head soup). The tongue, like with all ungulates, if removed promptly and set aside, makes great sandwich meat if boiled in a slight saltwater solution. Tongue is the first thing I usually harvest and set aside. If you skin out around (or cut) the lower jaw you can reach in and grab the tongue and cut it out, wash it off if possible and set aside.

    Kidneys, liver, heart...:
    The best gut fat can be found around the kidneys. When you pull the kidneys, you can pull off all the fat around them and put it in a bag or bucket with other gut fat and use that to fry meat with or render for future use. Heart is great to eat first night with tenderloins. Liver of course good fried with onions. Kidney isn't my favorite, but can be cooked in all manner of ways or diced and put in soups.

    There isn't anything on a caribou that can't really be used/eaten. Also, an ungulate like a caribou has everything you need to tan/sew and make things with. The brains can be saved for tanning (or eating) if you cut the skull cap. Forelegs of caribou hide make great mukluk uppers. Intestines make great sausage skins. Backstrap sinew is great to save for sewing or other projects (if you have any bowyer friends, they are always looking for real sinew).

    Smitty, it's good questions you're asking. Will be interesting to see what hunters learn from this, and how it pans out. Good luck,

  6. #6
    Member Kurt S's Avatar
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    "will be consumed by humans or processed for human consumption."

    I would think hanging would be the first step in processing.

    Kurt

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    Member chrisWillh's Avatar
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    The only part I really have problems with is the ORV restrictions, and that's mostly due to some complications my father in law has. I also can't anything high in iron content due to some health considerations, but I know plenty of people that can and do love liver, so that's not really a problem. Don't know if I could bring myself to eat the eyes.
    Chris Willhoite

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    Member SoggyMountain's Avatar
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    Use a big bullet and aim for the head.

    Invite Brian over for Kidney Surprise.

    Eat the heart and liver.

    Make a sofa cover out of the hide.

    ___________

    I'm glad I am not subsisting on that hunt!

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    I got a feeling that once everything is being transported out of the field and people are headed home theres going to be a lot of vehicles pulled over.On little side roads and pull offs they'll be piles of hide and innards.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt S View Post
    "will be consumed by humans or processed for human consumption."

    I would think hanging would be the first step in processing.....
    Does that mean that once it is "processed for human consumption" it can then be thrown away?

    Wouldn't that be wanton waste?

    If it is "processed for human consumption", shouldn't it ultimately be consumed by a human?

  11. #11

    Default Salvage requirements

    Hopefully they'll start applying similar requirements to all hunts and see how the rest of the state likes it-fully illustrating the folly of the politics in such regulations.

    My guess is there will be a lot of head & kidney shots and the buzzards will find plenty of leftovers in places other than the "field". Too bad that this will probably result in complaints from tourists, etc of carcases in sight of pull outs, etc. Kind of like having to look at the smoking crowd on downtown Anchorage sidewalks now that they've been forced out of the bars! Not the prettiest site or language if you're Ma & Pa tourist walking down the sidewalk at 10 o'clock on a Saturday night....

    Gotta find some humor in this whole tragedy.

  12. #12
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default Pretty clear message here-

    Smitty,

    It seems pretty obvious that this hunt is being managed as a subsistence hunt, not a trophy hunt. As Bushrat said, all of these parts are edible, but most of us do not usually eat some of this. But I would be willing to bet that you wouldn't have to ask very many folks in our villages what you do with a skinned caribou head, a hide, kidneys and the like. They utilize all of that.

    If this hunt is going to be managed as a subsistence hunt, I see nothing wrong at all with requirements such as these.

    Though I do enjoy wild fish and game, I do not consider myself a true subsistence hunter. I would venture a guess that in the past, folks who hunted this area were more interested in the cape and antlers than in the edible / usable portions of the animal. I could be wrong, but that's what it seems like.

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  13. #13

    Default Like all the other "subsistence" hunts

    If applied consistently State-Wide, nothing wrong at all. Therein lies the problem and the politics of this hunt, and with the word "subsistence" as a whole.

    By the way Mike, although I've seen my share of nice Nelchina racks over the years, I'd venture to say the opposite. Everybody I knew/know whom participated was after the meat first, hands down-which is as it should be on our ungulate species (in my admittedly biased opinion-never had much in common with the stereotypical "trophy" hunter).

    Regardless, certainly much less than the typical caribou hunter in most areas of the State, esp. those on guided or outfitted hunts! Conversely, think of all the trapper cabins with antlers hanging from the eaves.........bringing home a rack is not necessarily indicate an "interest" for such as opposed to meat.

  14. #14
    Member SoggyMountain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwake View Post
    If applied consistently State-Wide, nothing wrong at all. Therein lies the problem and the politics of this hunt, and with the word "subsistence" as a whole.

    By the way Mike, although I've seen my share of nice Nelchina racks over the years, I'd venture to say the opposite. Everybody I knew/know whom participated was after the meat first, hands down-which is as it should be on our ungulate species (in my admittedly biased opinion-never had much in common with the stereotypical "trophy" hunter).

    Regardless, certainly much less than the typical caribou hunter in most areas of the State, esp. those on guided or outfitted hunts! Conversely, think of all the trapper cabins with antlers hanging from the eaves.........bringing home a rack is not necessarily indicate an "interest" for such as opposed to meat.
    I ring the bell for both Bwake and Strahan.

    Michael is correct in defining this as a subsistance hunt. If you want to fake subsistance for a tag, then fake it at the dinner table. They do it on Survivor.

    For this reason I have said consistently in the forum that I subsist on my sport license. I will never claim to be "subsisting" when I can afford something better (by my tastes) than a rotted egg, flipper, or eyeball. When I kill an animal, I harvest according to the requirements of my license, and, rarely (though occasionally) more than that. Then, I eat it!

    Were I starving, I might be interested in Kidney and Eyeball soup, but between now and then, I have a choice.

    bwake: I agree 100% with the standards of the hunt. If the State says, "here is subsistence" then the rules have to apply to all subsisters.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwake View Post
    ....Gotta find some humor in this whole tragedy....
    I wouldn't call it humor, but I certainly am soundly amazed at the ironies that hunting politics can attain.

    ....If applied consistently State-Wide, nothing wrong at all. Therein lies the problem and the politics of this hunt, and with the word "subsistence" as a whole....
    I agree.

    Some of these restrictions apply elsewhere in the state (meat-on-the-bone & antler destruction for subsistence moose in the Koyukuk area). "Meat on the bone" is even applied for sport hunts in some areas.

    I, too, would like to see hide/head/kidney requirements applied universally with subsistence hunt designations. Let everybody join in the fun and games!

    'Cause that's all this is:

    A Game............

    And I can play.......

  16. #16

    Talking Play I will!

    Let the Subsistence Games of 2007 commence! I'm going to compete in the pre-64' scopeless -200 yard head shot! The good news is you either ring it up like a spruce hen or you miss! Nothing like brains everywhere or nowhere.

    If nothing else this has been fun practicing, although I still can't light a matchstick with one shot..............

  17. #17
    Member Mkay's Avatar
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    Default New rules

    This is what happens any time a small group of folks, in their effort to push others aside to be first at the trough, get. Three years ago I turned in to F&G 2 hunters who had 4 caribou racks and just a few skimpy bags of meat.
    These were Tier 2 hunters who got 2 proxy tags for nursing home residents.
    Funny thing, I don't know of too many nursing homes that allow you to keep wild game in their freezers. Now the rules have changed to at least make this hunt just a little less of the scam, which it is. If you don't like "subsistence" hunting, don't apply for the tag.

  18. #18
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    Thumbs up Great Snack

    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    The tongue, like with all ungulates, if removed promptly and set aside, makes great sandwich meat if boiled in a slight saltwater solution. Tongue is the first thing I usually harvest and set aside. If you skin out around (or cut) the lower jaw you can reach in and grab the tongue and cut it out, wash it off if possible and set aside.
    The tongue is great! I boil it until the skin starts to peel a little. Then I skin it and cut it up in small pieces.

    Then I take one of those big jars of cut JalapeŮos from Costco, Strain the juice removing the JalapeŮos. I put the juice in a pan, drop in the cut up tongue and bring to a boil. Let cool. Place in jar with a little bit of the JalapeŮos and refrigerate.

    Great for sandwiches or just a snack! mmmmmmm

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  19. #19
    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Default I advise caution with your words

    Killing an animal is not something to take lightly, or to joke about. Every time we do that it makes hunters and hunting look bad. Not sure, Bwake, if your post was serious or in jest, but certainly the bullet could be low and hit the moose in the lower jaw, could go right or left and wound it in the neck. I just hate to see hunters joke about such things here where so many others read those words. A "head shot" isn't the way around having to harvest the head meat. Please consider what you write and how it may come across to others.


  20. #20
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    Thanks to all, for the ideas.

    Iíve never kept a hide before, but Iím sure I could stake it out, flesh it, salt it, and hope that bear donít come back.

    Man, those heads are hard to skin.

    Iíve never eaten a tongue, and my parents didnít believe in eating kidneys.

    I do like caribou fat, like on the ribs etc.

    We always save the heart, liver, and the neck, and always leave it on the bones, and pack it out in game bags.

    I spose I could live with, it, but Itís a lot more work than Iím accustomed to. And, to me the kidneys, head, and hide arenít worth the trouble.

    I wonder if these new rules will be a boon to the taxidermy business.

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
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