Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: .416 Ruger

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    foothills of the Brooks Range
    Posts
    638

    Thumbs up .416 Ruger

    Now that has to be an attention grabber!

    Murphy, you reload and expand into the next level sooner than most of us, have you had a chance yet to either do a .416 Ruger chambering or reload for one that has one chambered so?

    I am particularly interested in a 40 bore and over, never really owned one thus far not including my .457WWG that I just was happy to give away to my younger brother-whew! darn porting!

    I have a VZ24 that I have readied for a barrel, was considering a 9.3 x 62 and have a L-W 23.5" prechambered coming in the mail soon but that could always be in check and save the barrel for another action I have sitting around - a 1935 Modelo Peruvian 98.

    I am curious about the ballistics and am uncertain what can be achieved in comparison to say the .416 Chattfield-Taylor.

    Rail work with a beltless over a belted has got to be a plus. I have quite abit of .338 win mag. brass around but ..... this Ruger case has me leaning toward that idea.

    Recommended bbl. length 22"? What is the shortest bbl. without a rip-snorting butt stomping recoiling son of a gun that can still deliver in a pinch?

    any info and insight, appreciated.

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    foothills of the Brooks Range
    Posts
    638

    Default

    I have had no experience getting my hands on RWS brass for my 9.3 x 64--thus far. How about the availabililty of brass in the .404 Jeff? A .416 Murphy

    Where I go there is no such thing as a store, not in the bushes anyways so reloading anything headstamped or wildcat is not a problem. Have heard that RL 15 is getting more difficult-generally get mine lately over at Sportsman. Is this powder a consideration with this necked up 404?

    If I need to get a barrel I will get one from Danny Pederson down in Prescott if I choose this 404 wildcat

    feel free to expand-I like our conversation(the last samurai)

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    foothills of the Brooks Range
    Posts
    638

    Default

    it is something to ponder and I am grateful! this is a good conversation.

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    402

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    I have necked the Ruger case to 416 and then pushed the shoulder back to give it more neck, I think that's needed.
    I agree, most of your old british "been there done that" rounds have ample necks to prevent setback of bullets under recoil and mag punishment when mags are topped off rather than emptied and the bottom rounds have to survive tens of recoils.

    They also make better sealed off enviorns for nitro.(a hiking plus where bullets are carried way more haphazzardly than hunting)

    What are the neck length measurements on the .416/.375?

    Is it at least caliber? or better? .420"?

    I have contemplated such a round and only prior project overruns and funding have put a damper to my ".416 trail boss".(for DG hiking safety mainly)

    I was hopeful for a .440" neck length design and pushed back shoulder and only wanted about 1900-2000 fps with 400 grainers. More velocity would be a hunting plus but not at the expense of compressed loads or pressure spikes in heat(wanting to keep safe pressures if temps are hot like near the equator and wanting ease of extraction as #1 with max about 45,000-47000)

    We need to learn moderation from the early days with the .458 compressed loads and reliving that same kind of stuff with the .416 remington in really hot places today...don't push pressure to compensate for capicity.

    I may just get on the .416/.375 bandwagon now if that neck has good length.

    jedi

    ps; I used your pic as a desktop for motivation

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    402

    Default

    of course I was thinking of a 16.25" bbl for the 1900fps goal and 2200-2300 fps with a 24" bbl.

    jedi

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    402

    Default

    hmmmmm...relooking at the capacity numbers vs. the remington, 2300 fps with a 400 seems to be a pipe dream with the lower pressures wanted.

    I know! I will make a ruger style case of beltless .532" that is 2.850" H&H length with the shoulder foreward and a .440"-.470" length neck.( special order run money adding up in the thousands)

    That ought to get a 400 grainer to 2400 fps with no muss or fuss or pressure problems.

    Ok...there is the idea....someone make it happen so we can all benefit.....my wallet is a bit light.

    jedi

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    foothills of the Brooks Range
    Posts
    638

    Default

    let us examine a .411" Woodleigh on the "improved" Steyr case Murphy. If not a Woodleigh then .....

    I like our conversation-this is good.

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    402

    Default awesome!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Here's some more. I'd have to get my Powley out to find actual ballistics but the 416 Jedi (the 375 Ruger necked to 416 and shouldered with .415" of neck) holds 98.8 grains of water. (unfired)

    The lineup is;

    375 Ruger, 375/416 Ruger, 416 Jedi, 416 Murphy,
    Great Murphy!

    With the .416 Taylor at 91.2 gr.cap.

    and the .416 Jedi at 98.8 gr.cap.

    That .416 Jedi should beat the .416 Taylor!

    The Taylor has a fine reputation too.

    The .416 Jedi should be better because;

    1)Better feeding should be there from lack of a belt so gunsmiths have less fuss to deal with.

    2)Longer case life should be there too.

    3)Better accuracy from headspacing on the shoulder as well.

    4)Better sealing from moisture with the longer neck.

    5)Better bullet grip under recoil.

    6)Lower pressures from greater case capacity with equal velocity.

    7)Better velocities from greater case capacity if desired.

    All this in a standard .30-'06 length action with .532" magnum bolt face.

    It just seems like a winner all the way around.

    The .416/.375 Ruger should do this too but I think that at least 1 caliber of neck is the minimum you should have for heavy recoiling rifles used in extreme climates.

    jedi

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    402

    Default

    The A-Square factory loads pushes a 400 grain bullet at a muzzle velocity (MV) of 2350 fps with muzzle energy (ME) of 4905 ft. lbs. in the .416 Taylor

    75 grains of Reloader 15 powder is good for a MV of 2394 fps, at a reasonable MAP of 48,800 cup. in the Taylor with 400 grain A-Square bullets.

    That means this pup (.416 Jedi) can push a 400 at a solid 2400 easy as pie even in super hot climates with no pressure problems at all!!!!

    Probably way down at about 46,000cup!!!

    HOW AWESOME WOULD THAT BE!?!?

    Probably need a new name though since "Jedi" is probably registered with lucas films ltd.

    How about the .416 PROFESSIONAL? or .416 PH?

    jedi

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    402

    Default

    Yeah...with the .416 remington at 105gr cap. and the Taylor at 91 gr cap. I was wondering how it could be...was hopeful maybe it was a short fat effeciency thing... but reality says it was most likely too much mfgs. published blue sky data and the main reality of all earth bound fuel burning propulsion systems "there is no replacement for displacement".

    Which makes the .404 jeffrey and .416 rigby cases still the undisputed heavyweight champs. (within reason as I will never pull the trigger on a .577 t-rex ouch!)

    jedi

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    foothills of the Brooks Range
    Posts
    638

    Default

    Murphy that is a fine looking round, it sure is.

    In your opinion shed some light on the .416 Aagaard(Z-Hat?) and the .411(400Thuma) Steyr if you please. This Steyr case has alot of potential. Pics as well. I am getting close to making up my mind. I don't think I want to go 60,000 plus in a Mauser - VZ24 or not(lug setback). I have not sent this action to PacMet for carburizng yet-may have to if we get into a high pressure caliber.

    As you mentioned about finalizing a project-this would be finalized by spring surely.

    thanks Muryphy

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    foothills of the Brooks Range
    Posts
    638

    Default

    If I am not mistaken the ballistics of this also resemble the 400 whelan or the 411 Hawk just a better shoulder that not only looks good but headspaces rather well.

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    402

    Default

    I think the .411 Thuma looks good grizz and should be very useful.

    Probably do anything a .411 hawk will or a .405 winchester will, and do it better.

    .411 bullets could be the problem I guess with available choices which is why maybe z-hat went .416 on the Aagaard (or maybe just to avoid competing with themselves as the .411 hawk already fills that niche).

    I aint real familiar with the whole .411 selection.

    But I didn't see anything spitzer for longer ranges in murphy's pic or on a quickie e-search.

    Maybe they make em, I don't know.

    I wish someone would make a .400 (10mm) rifle bore.

    Then the 400 steyr would really be some fun.

    Good economical plinking with 10mm pistol bullets from 135 gr to 200 gr stuff for the .40 s&w.(real explosive on melons and water jugs)

    I wonder how long before someone realises that and cashes in?

    I think there should be a rifle bore that matches every pistol bore to use all that economical practice supply.

    I guess 41 mag stuff may be used for the .411 but I ain't familiar with the 41 mag either as I have no experience with that caliber either.(both are rather low on the market sales listings and supply and choices suffer accordingly)

    jedi

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    foothills of the Brooks Range
    Posts
    638

    Default

    most of the bullet selection for this seem to be round/flat nose. Tubular and for bolt guns. With the velocities this caliber gives out reminds me of a load quite similar to the .45-70 just less frontal/dia.-have gathered the 450/400 3-inch and 400 Jeffery using cordite was in this velocity range. Elmer Keith wrote that a double bbl. 450/400 3-inch would be his first choice for crawling thru alder after a big bear. I don't know Elmer but that is a strong statement.

    The .416 Aagaard sound pretty cool. I believe they are getting 400grns @ 2125fps-still some pretty good numbers @ 55,000psi or therabouts. I am trying to get a hold of a fella that has a .416 Aagaard and see how his use is holding up.

    lots of opportunities for sure.

  15. #15
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    4,431

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by grizz106 View Post
    Murphy that is a fine looking round, it sure is.

    In your opinion shed some light on the .416 Aagaard(Z-Hat?) and the .411(400Thuma) Steyr if you please. This Steyr case has alot of potential. Pics as well. I am getting close to making up my mind. I don't think I want to go 60,000 plus in a Mauser - VZ24 or not(lug setback). I have not sent this action to PacMet for carburizng yet-may have to if we get into a high pressure caliber.

    As you mentioned about finalizing a project-this would be finalized by spring surely.

    thanks Muryphy

    Yeah, I think so, too. I don't know about the dimensions of the Z-hat rounds Fred has made. I'm sure they are useful rounds as he is very knowledgable on this sort of thing. I'm sure the ballistics of any and all 40 caliber cartridges on the Steyr case are very similar. The 400 Whelen duplicates the 405 WCF and adds about 50 fps, I think the Steyr case will add to that a bit but not by much. I think it would peak at about 2250 fps for a 300 grain bullet in a good action. And that likely form a 20-22" barrel. This Steyr case is very efficient at forty caliber. The 338 Steyr out ran the 338-06 all the way around. I think improving the case slightly will help the shoulder and still leave .020" of taper in the case. Necked for .411" bullets and shooting 300-350 grainers it would be a bear buster. Montana Rifleman has told me that they won't chamber for my wildcats anymore so it will need to be local or you may know a good smith to do it also. I like it, it would look good on a VZ24 action.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  16. #16
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    4,431

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Take a look at this. I think I can have Dave make a reamer in about 6-8 weeks. This is a wonderful Mauser round. If you have a 376 drawing following along. I changed the shoulder diameter to (max dims) .486" (was .473") , length to shoulder is 1.870" (was 1.893"), to the neck is 1.960" (was 2.007") and the neck length is .402", (was .355")

    This still gives us 78.0 grains of water (unfired, about 4 more when fired improved) and by comparison the 405 Win has a 77.5 grains capacity (fired). At 45,000 psi this would give 2150 fps to a 300 grain bullet and 2000 from the 350 grain. At 55,000 psi (still conservative) we could have 350 grain woodleigh at 2200 fps. That is 3750 ft.lbs of energy at the muzzle. There are many good bullets for the .410-.411" bore they are just not common. Hornady makes the 300 in fp and sptz. Woodleigh has 300, 350 and 400, Hawk has 300 and 350. And anything made for the 41 mag can be used for pot loads and cheap practice. This is starting to appeal to me. I have always liked this Steyr case. Here is a shot. The 376, loaded and empty on the left the 400 Thuma with a 300 Hornady, then the 405 WCF for balance.

    The bullets are 300 Hornady, 350 and 400 Woodleigh

    What would you get if you crossed a 405 Winchester with a 376 Steyr?
    I have this reamer on order for the 400 Thuma. I filled the box of an old FN Mauser action and cycled them through, they will work. I've talked to the Hawk bullet folks and they will make the bullets we need in 300, 325, 350 and 400 grain weight in .410" or .411" The reamer will be throated for a .411" bullet and the inexpensive Hornady's in FP and spire well work well. I think if my ballistic calculations are good, it will give is 400 grains at 2150 fps, 350's at 2250 and 300's at 2400 fps and at or below 56,000 psi. That's a sweet package. I'll build this on the Mauser with a McMillan stock and a good barrel of 21 inches, I haven't decided on the maker. I'll set it up for rough country tundra hunting. It would be a good companion for my 41 mag Ruger. Whadda ya think?
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  17. #17
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    4,431

    Default

    Just a bump for an update on the new 411" on the improved 376 Steyr case. It is all I'd hoped and more.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  18. #18
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    4,431

    Default

    The 416 Jedi became the 423 Caprivi and was made in a very nice Mauser and used in Zimbabwe, South Africa and Namibia to take some tough stuff. This became a very handsome and useful round and was born out of this conversation here on this forum. I have a 411" on the same modified 375 Ruger case and it is in the making now. The 423 has exactly .420" of neck and the 411" has .401". I am really liking the 411" bullet size now that I have used it a lot and found the right bullets.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •