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Thread: 2020 Draw Apps

  1. #101
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    As far as point system vs random draw, many have already done a good job articulating why point systems arenít a good option and only benefit those that get in on the ground floor. I sure wouldnít want to see that here in Alaska. However, I do play that game in other states, hoping essentially for the ďrandomĒ component that is offered in some of those draws.

    Maybe Alaska should look to move to a similar random draw system that Idaho uses, which makes you prioritize the species you most desire. In Idaho, sheep, moose, and goat are in one pool, Elk and deer are in another pool.

    For example, if youíd like to put in for the draw permits for sheep, moose, or goat, you only get to apply for one, and youíre out on the other two. In turn, you cannot apply for draw for elk or deer, and need to go OTC for those species. Vice versa, if you wanted to apply for Elk or deer draws, you are not eligible to apply for sheep, moose, or goat. (Unfortunately, no OTC opportunity there.)

    If Alaska adopted a similar model, with so many OTC opportunities already available, it would limit the number of people that ďshoot the moonĒ applying for every single tag, and essentially free up more chances in each particular hunt. You want to hunt Placer/20 mile moose? Sounds good, apply for that, but you canít apply for Tok Sheep now. Apply for Eagle River goat? Then you are going with a general tag for moose or caribou.

    Luckily Alaska has OTC opportunities for all species, so unlike Idaho, you could still go hunting for whatever youíd like, you just wouldnít be going on one of the coveted draw tags.

    It may not be perfect, but none of the systems are, and at least it still has the random component.




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  2. #102
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    Why do so many people want to change our draw system to whatever they had where they came from? Get off my lawn.
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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeRoss View Post
    Why do so many people want to change our draw system to whatever they had where they came from? Get off my lawn.


    Exactly, especially when we should be recruiting youth hunters. The point system would alleviate youth participation.
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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeRoss View Post
    Why do so many people want to change our draw system to whatever they had where they came from? Get off my lawn.
    Where is the post that someone wanted to change the system to the one where they came from? I mustíve missed it.


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  5. #105
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    Ya sucks when you put in for something for 50 years and never draw it, then get to old to do the hunt and never get to do it. Then a first year resident gets the tag his first shot. I believe in the point system. Works well with those really hard to get tags
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  6. #106
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    A point system only benefits those who get into the Ponzi scheme early. Alaskaís random system shouldnít change unless some premier tags shift to having a longer wait time until applying to somewhat limit the applicant pool. Either way I look forward to alaska draw results like a kid on Christmas but mostly I just get lumps of coal when I look up the results.

  7. #107
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    Exactly my point! Should benefit the residents and the ones that have spent years trying to get
    Quote Originally Posted by hoosier06 View Post
    A point system only benefits those who get into the Ponzi scheme early. Alaskaís random system shouldnít change unless some premier tags shift to having a longer wait time until applying to somewhat limit the applicant pool. Either way I look forward to alaska draw results like a kid on Christmas but mostly I just get lumps of coal when I look up the results.
    "Nothing worse than a GROUSE!!!"

  8. #108
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    The point .... That just because you have been living here longer or putting in longer doesnít give you the right to a better chance if you have been putting in for the past 15 years and havenít drawn you have already had 15 more years of chances than a first time applicant
    When you go to a points system you are rigging the system for those that can throw money at a point system for several years and screwing the youth and beginners our of a chance. That may have you thinking ď well those that have been drawing for years deserve that tagĒ but itís about everybody having an equal chance right now our numbers as hunters are shrinking .... the youth and those wanting to pick up the tradition not having that opportunity may be one of the problems....
    my nephew lives point system started hunting last year and he wants to hunt a bighorn in a certain area he looked it up if he buys a point every year he will be in his mid thirties before he will have enough points to even have a shot. He thinks itís pointless and is applying elsewhere That is fricking depressing. ...I on the other hand returned to Alaska after 3 years away and I put in for a very coveted sheep tag now I know my odds are extremely slim but I have just as good of shot as anybody nobody can use seniority or money buying bonus points to knock me out if the running I have a shot that keeps me in the running if I knew I would have to wait 20 years ....I would not waste 20 years of applying and knowing I am coming out empty handed. For a chance 2 decades later that I may not even live to see
    Itís why itís called a lottery ... just because I have been buying Powerball for the past ten years doesnít and shouldnít give me a better chance on this weeks drawing
    Each application is equal itís how it should be



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  9. #109
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    Not sure how this is any different then randomly not drawing for 20+ years... random draws can be (and usually are) very depressing as well haha

    Quote Originally Posted by roughneck6883 View Post
    my nephew lives point system started hunting last year and he wants to hunt a bighorn in a certain area he looked it up if he buys a point every year he will be in his mid thirties before he will have enough points to even have a shot. He thinks itís pointless and is applying elsewhere That is fricking depressing. ...

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  10. #110
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    Point system screws all the new residents, your kids, my kids, neighbors kids. There will be 5000+ people way in front of the kids we say we want to get into hunting. Well give them a chance at a dream hunt, maybe youíll keep the interested. Bunnies and grouse are fun, but some kids dreams go above the alders. Let em play too!


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  11. #111
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    I apologize in advance if this offends anyone, but the fact is if you think a bonus or preference point system is good in anyway at all, or that it will benefit your kids somehow in the future, you are uneducated to the facts, as well as the consequences associated with that method of distributing tags. Below is just one article outlining some issues, and itís geared towards Wyoming residents specifically, but the points made in the article apply to a point system in any state, it just happens to be written from a Wyoming perspective.

    https://blog.eastmans.com/the-myth-o...erence-points/


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  12. #112
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    I agree the random draw is much better then the points systems, but your post seems to infer there is no HT opportunity for hunter recruitment, which just isnít the case in Alaska. The great majority of us hunt HT every year, and I bring new people in on these hunts frequently. THe article deadwolf linked is a good read, perhaps only applying points to bison and sheep wouldnít ruffle so many feathers, since there are so many moose/caribou/goat tags worth drawing at decent odds. Itís Really only a handful of tags (sheep/bison) that are nearly impossible to draw randomly.


    Quote Originally Posted by coop22250 View Post
    Point system screws all the new residents, your kids, my kids, neighbors kids. There will be 5000+ people way in front of the kids we say we want to get into hunting. Well give them a chance at a dream hunt, maybe youíll keep the interested. Bunnies and grouse are fun, but some kids dreams go above the alders. Let em play too!


    I have yet to begin to procrastinate

  13. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by roughneck6883 View Post
    The point .... That just because you have been living here longer or putting in longer doesnít give you the right to a better chance if you have been putting in for the past 15 years and havenít drawn you have already had 15 more years of chances than a first time applicant
    When you go to a points system you are rigging the system for those that can throw money at a point system for several years and screwing the youth and beginners our of a chance. That may have you thinking ď well those that have been drawing for years deserve that tagĒ but itís about everybody having an equal chance right now our numbers as hunters are shrinking .... the youth and those wanting to pick up the tradition not having that opportunity may be one of the problems....
    my nephew lives point system started hunting last year and he wants to hunt a bighorn in a certain area he looked it up if he buys a point every year he will be in his mid thirties before he will have enough points to even have a shot. He thinks itís pointless and is applying elsewhere That is fricking depressing. ...I on the other hand returned to Alaska after 3 years away and I put in for a very coveted sheep tag now I know my odds are extremely slim but I have just as good of shot as anybody nobody can use seniority or money buying bonus points to knock me out if the running I have a shot that keeps me in the running if I knew I would have to wait 20 years ....I would not waste 20 years of applying and knowing I am coming out empty handed. For a chance 2 decades later that I may not even live to see
    Itís why itís called a lottery ... just because I have been buying Powerball for the past ten years doesnít and shouldnít give me a better chance on this weeks drawing
    Each application is equal itís how it should be



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    Not to bum your nephew out even more, but he's not doing his math right. He isn't taking point creep into account. Just because that sheep tag takes +20 points today does not mean he can draw it in 20ish years starting now.

    I'm fairly confident that there is not any bighorn tag (Rocky or desert) in the states with point systems that a person can start applying for now and be guaranteed a tag before they die--unless they can live for hundreds of years.

    Let's imagine that Alaska adopted a point system and allocated 100% of tags to the highest point holders. Look at the average number of applicants each year for Delta bison which is about 10000 +/-, and there are usually about 100 tags each year. It would take 100 years to clear out everybody who started applying in year 1.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonath View Post
    I agree the random draw is much better then the points systems, but your post seems to infer there is no HT opportunity for hunter recruitment, which just isnít the case in Alaska. The great majority of us hunt HT every year, and I bring new people in on these hunts frequently. THe article deadwolf linked is a good read, perhaps only applying points to bison and sheep wouldnít ruffle so many feathers, since there are so many moose/caribou/goat tags worth drawing at decent odds. Itís Really only a handful of tags (sheep/bison) that are nearly impossible to draw randomly.
    I could give a **** less about hunter recruitment. I donít think itís right to tell kids you might have a chance at hope for this tag when you are 60. Let everyone have the same hope every year, thatís what a lottery is all about, long odds, special when you win.


    I have yet to begin to procrastinate

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnycake View Post
    Not to bum your nephew out even more, but he's not doing his math right. He isn't taking point creep into account. Just because that sheep tag takes +20 points today does not mean he can draw it in 20ish years starting now.

    I'm fairly confident that there is not any bighorn tag (Rocky or desert) in the states with point systems that a person can start applying for now and be guaranteed a tag before they die--unless they can live for hundreds of years.

    Let's imagine that Alaska adopted a point system and allocated 100% of tags to the highest point holders. Look at the average number of applicants each year for Delta bison which is about 10000 +/-, and there are usually about 100 tags each year. It would take 100 years to clear out everybody who started applying in year 1.
    Yup, and the 60 year olds that have a chance now, goodbye.


    I have yet to begin to procrastinate

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by coop22250 View Post
    I could give a **** less about hunter recruitment. I donít think itís right to tell kids you might have a chance at hope for this tag when you are 60. Let everyone have the same hope every year, thatís what a lottery is all about, long odds, special when you win.


    I have yet to begin to procrastinate
    Not caring about hunter recruitment seems like a dumb stand to take, but whatever. Alaskans are lucky to have so many OTC tags available for so many species. Random draws are the only way to go. I like knowing I (and my kids) have as much of a chance as anybody to draw. If we donít, so be it and Iíll suffer with needing to get a free tag from the counter. Thereís many thousands of hunters across the country that wish they had to suffer our problems here.


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  17. #117
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    The real interesting thing about this thread is the entitlement attitude of the people who think they deserve a tag.
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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptarmigan View Post
    Not caring about hunter recruitment seems like a dumb stand to take, but whatever. Alaskans are lucky to have so many OTC tags available for so many species. Random draws are the only way to go. I like knowing I (and my kids) have as much of a chance as anybody to draw. If we donít, so be it and Iíll suffer with needing to get a free tag from the counter. Thereís many thousands of hunters across the country that wish they had to suffer our problems here.


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    There so many techy podcasts, modern hunting media, there are others recruiting far more effectively than I could. Joe Rogan, Meateater, etc etc. I canít tell you how many stories Iíve read of NYC natives trying hunting, hippies, city kids, all kinds. The ones I know donít need recruiters, so Iíll leave that to others. Most people come here to hunt and when they get on here and ask question the forum turns into a bunch of A holes saying welcome, find you own **** spot. So letís see you all share some info and recruit some hunters


    I have yet to begin to procrastinate

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlingitwarrior View Post
    The real interesting thing about this thread is the entitlement attitude of the people who think they deserve a tag.
    I deserve a powerball winner too, NOW!


    I have yet to begin to procrastinate

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by coop22250 View Post
    There so many techy podcasts, modern hunting media, there are others recruiting far more effectively than I could. Joe Rogan, Meateater, etc etc. I canít tell you how many stories Iíve read of NYC natives trying hunting, hippies, city kids, all kinds. The ones I know donít need recruiters, so Iíll leave that to others. Most people come here to hunt and when they get on here and ask question the forum turns into a bunch of A holes saying welcome, find you own **** spot. So letís see you all share some info and recruit some hunters


    I have yet to begin to procrastinate
    I always try to help new hunters and fisherman. Itís usually by way of PM but I have no problem helping out someone that is sincere. Obviously not everyone shares that same philosophy and thatís fine. What someone else wants to offer (or doesnít) has no bearing on what Iíll do. I still maintain weíre pretty lucky having the opportunities we have as residents here in AK. My only gripe is I donít have the time to take advantage of them all. Dang family obligations and all!


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