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Thread: What are you PA-12 owners seeing for true empty weights on floats?

  1. #1
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    Default What are you PA-12 owners seeing for true empty weights on floats?

    I had a 12 and a J5/12 hybrid, but they were on wheels.
    I have instructed in a few PA-12s on floats that were rather heavy and required some imagination for the check-ride weight and balance.

    Just wondering what you 12 drivers were seeing for actual numbers.

    I am seriously thinking about going back to a Cub size plane for float ratings.
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    Problem with the 12 series for a training plane is the lack of legal upgross certification options. That makes them almost impossible to pencil out for a checkride. Kind of like a 1750 gross weight PA-18, but with the -18 there are legal ways to get that gross weight increased and make it functional.

    That is my impression anyway. Good luck.
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    The factory gross for a PA-12 on wheels is 1750 pounds.

    ON FLOATs the factory gross weight is 1838 pounds.

    With the gross weight increase STC, the legal gross is 1935 pounds. The STC adds about 20-25 pounds of extra tubing.
    2 STC's are available: one from Crosswind/Charlie Center and the other from Borer.

    Wipeline Floats also has a gross weight increase that requires WIPE 2100 floats. That too is 1935 pounds.
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    That is at least enough to be a two person plane for a checkride. Better than I thought.
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    Maybe. Nobody has chimed in with an actual weight.
    A few years ago this forum would have had all sorts of folks answering.
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    My PA-12 has an empty wt on wheels of of 1190.

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    AK Mauler:
    What do you guess-ta-mate your wheel gear weighs, along with your tailwheel assembly,,, around 100 pounds or more?
    EDO -2000s weigh 265 pounds with Pa-18 or PA-12 rigging.
    So in theory yours would weigh 1355 lbs on EDO-2000s if you had 100 pounds worth of wheel gear to remove first.
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    That sounds about right. I used to do float ratings in it and never had any issues with weight.

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    Unfortunately, can't help as I've never been on floats.

    Would suggest....some degree of regretful hindsight here...that if a aircraft is acquired just for the purpose of float ratings that an -18 rather than a -12 be pursued. I'm pretty sure the -18 uses up less of its 2000# GW than does the 12 using up it's 1935# GW. And I'd guess a near gross -18 on floats would perform relatively better than a near or at gross -12 on floats.

    Don't have the paperwork handy or available, but I'd guess my gear, wheels, two steps, and tailwheel (all heavy and I have the AOSS instead of bungees or whatever) collectively weigh at least 125 prolly close to 150.
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    I posed your request on the Flyout Alaska FB page and got this response.....

    The one I fly is 1438 on Edo 2000s. It wasn't rebuilt light though.
    "I refuse to let the things I can't do stop me from doing the things I can"

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    I'm pretty sure the -18 uses up less of its 2000# GW
    If you can find a PA-18 with the 2000 pound gross weight STC. If not, they are only 1760 pounds on floats from the factory.

    Years ago I flew and 18 and I still do a lot of ratings and BFRs in 18s. The narrow width is sometimes an issue while trying to instruct from the rear seat. One of the reasons I sold my old PA-11.
    25 inches wide for a standard PA-18 at the front seat and 32 inches for a PA-12. And the 36 inch wide PA-12 back seat lets the CFI slide over to see around the client up front.
    At one time there was a fairly significant price difference between the 18s and 12s, these days not so much.

    This photo is from the back of a 12 while I was giving a float rating...
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    I flew this one on amphibs in Texas, the instructor is a DPE. He does training and check rides in it. I will ask him for the specs next time I fly with him.

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    I posed your request on the Flyout Alaska FB page and got this response.....

    ""The one I fly is 1438 on Edo 2000s. It wasn't rebuilt light though.""
    Thanks Stephen, I saw that over there... That guy has a heavy plane.
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    Is that the outfit down by Burnett Texas? That is a sharp looking 12. Amazing what being in a hangar and not out in the snow will do...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Float Pilot View Post
    Is that the outfit down by Burnett Texas? That is a sharp looking 12. Amazing what being in a hangar and not out in the snow will do...
    Yes Sir, flys nice too. My memory is terrible, but I seem to remember that he said he had to derate the engine to get the gross weight increase.

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    One more from FB.....


    I'm at 1387 on EDO 2000's
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    The PA-12 down in Texas weighs 1408 on Amphibs. They have a useful load of 529 pounds. They must have stripped out any other weight they could find, because Wip amphibs weigh 420 pounds installed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Float Pilot View Post
    The PA-12 down in Texas weighs 1408 on Amphibs. They have a useful load of 529 pounds. They must have stripped out any other weight they could find, because Wip amphibs weigh 420 pounds installed.
    I was lost in Houston (and doing biennials with Ken at Promark) off and on for quite a while, including during the time when he was acquiring/tweaking that -12. Although I only heard things verbally, it seems like it was always a bit of a weight - whipsaw about the fixing / adding and then removing/reducing.

    Although I last saw it in 16? 17? it was a darn nice looking plane. I believe I also heard it was derated...although I have some niggling thought that I heard that the derating was as much for "B" as "W"....but also just 2nd hand recollection from fading memory.
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    Just went through the W&B on a local 12. Even with the 1935 up-gross tubing, they only had a 522 pound legal useful load.
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