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Thread: The Disappearing Kenai King Salmon.

  1. #1
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    Default The Disappearing Kenai King Salmon.

    I fail to understand why F&G waits so long to protect the Kings. Here we are restricted to no bait while fishing for silvers. King fishing should have been completely shut down a bunch of years ago. Like they did with the razor clams. Close it for years. No catch and release. No targeting kings. No bait until August. Only 9000 Kings up the river and it wasn't shut down back in July? Nonsense. Should have seen that coming. We're going to fish those kings right into extinction.
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  2. #2

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    Follow the money. People come here for a guided King trip and spend money. Who cares if there are 400+ guide boats in operation as long as Soldotna and Kenai get their $$. Screw the fish apparently.

    I actually fished Kings for a few hours this year with no intention of keeping but probably shouldn't even do that.


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    I think most tourists are happy fishing just about any species. I doubt we would see a noticable decline in tourism if King fishing on the Kenai was to come to a complete stop. But no. The guides and lodges all need to make bank. On the backs of the Kings.
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  4. #4

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    The math on this is pretty simple. Between guides, tourism, and commfish, there is intense economic pressure to keep the sport king fishery open. Until EACH of those "industries" agrees to accept restrictions (IMNSHO, highly unlikely), expect more of the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeRoss View Post
    I fail to understand why F&G waits so long to protect the Kings. Here we are restricted to no bait while fishing for silvers. King fishing should have been completely shut down a bunch of years ago. Like they did with the razor clams. Close it for years. No catch and release. No targeting kings. No bait until August. Only 9000 Kings up the river and it wasn't shut down back in July? Nonsense. Should have seen that coming. We're going to fish those kings right into extinction.

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    It looks like they need about 235 kings per day for the next 14 days to achieve the bottom end of the escapement goal. That’s far from certain.

  6. #6

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    Yup, follow the money. If you think the pressure is only coming from the sport industry, you don’t understand UCI fishery management. It’s called paired restrictions and if sport is shut down, so is commercial. Good luck getting the commercial industrial complex to accept less fishing time (anybody else see the lawsuit Cook Inlet Fisherman’s Fund filed on August 1st for more netting time?).

  7. #7

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    Yep, got shot down in flames by Judge Jason Gist. Rejected CIFF's legal arguments in its entirety. CIFF just spent a lot of money for nothing! Bravo Judge Gist!
    <<<Good luck getting the commercial industrial complex to accept less fishing time (anybody else see the lawsuit Cook Inlet Fisherman’s Fund filed on August 1st for more netting time?).>>>

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    I live on the river and did not fish one time for kings this year. It's pathetic! Wish they would limit the guides after them. Hell I wouldn't mind if they shut it down completely.

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    Agreed. I have resolved not to fish for them in any stream that is "struggling" to maintain population, which is pretty much all of them at this point. I haven't fished for kings in years. I sure would love to see the day that they return in healthy, sustainable numbers to the Su valley and the Kenai, but for now, I think we need to just shut it down and let the run recover. Yes, I get that there are actions occurring out on the high seas that are affecting their population, but I'm not sure we (Alaska) can do much about that. What we can do, we should do. -Gr
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    Today’s regular Thursday commercial period has been closed to set nets because ADFG is projecting to not achieve king escapement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKBC View Post
    Today’s regular Thursday commercial period has been closed to set nets because ADFG is projecting to not achieve king escapement.
    Pretty sure if they hadn't been sitting there like the 3 monkeys for the past 6 weeks, it would have been obvious more needed to be done to increase escapement way back then. (see no evil, hear no evil...…..
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    "There will be a late push that will bring the numbers up." No there won't.
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  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorcalBob View Post
    Yep, got shot down in flames by Judge Jason Gist. Rejected CIFF's legal arguments in its entirety. CIFF just spent a lot of money for nothing! Bravo Judge Gist!
    <<<Good luck getting the commercial industrial complex to accept less fishing time (anybody else see the lawsuit Cook Inlet FishermanÂ’s Fund filed on August 1st for more netting time?).>>>
    The commies revealed their true colors with total disregard for the future of Kenai kings in filing the suit. I support king restrictions including limiting the number of guides as there are way too many guides targeting kings on the river. That being said the ESSN king harvest alone was well above the creel harvest on large kings (189 more) and all size kings (533 more) as of August 4. The greed and entitlement exhibited by the commies suing to fish regardless is troubling. I am glad the judge denied their motion in the interests of all future users. I still question the rationale behind state or federal taxpayers contributing tax dollars to a welfare fund when the commies have a bad year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeRoss View Post
    ……King fishing should have been completely shut down a bunch of years ago.....
    Totally agree, and have been saying that for MANY years now. Anglers shouldn't even been able to target them at the FIRST sign that science determined there was a problem. But the almighty $$$ is always too important, even at the risk of (what once was) one of the greatest chinook fisheries in the world. What I can't understand is, that by continuing down this road how these guides and businesses can't see that they are killing the goose that lays the golden egg. It's the "what can I get out of it NOW, and screw the long term goal" mentality that still seems to plague too many. But I really shouldn't be surprised.....money seems to trump common sense more and more these days.

    Hell, they're even contemplating putting a huge open pit mine at the headwaters of the greatest fishery in the world, AND use the very same people that built the dam that failed in BC! The ideocracy is mind boggling!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post
    Totally agree, and have been saying that for MANY years now. Anglers shouldn't even been able to target them at the FIRST sign that science determined there was a problem. But the almighty $$$ is always too important, even at the risk of (what once was) one of the greatest chinook fisheries in the world. What I can't understand is, that by continuing down this road how these guides and businesses can't see that they are killing the goose that lays the golden egg. It's the "what can I get out of it NOW, and screw the long term goal" mentality that still seems to plague too many. But I really shouldn't be surprised.....money seems to trump common sense more and more these days.

    Hell, they're even contemplating putting a huge open pit mine at the headwaters of the greatest fishery in the world, AND use the very same people that built the dam that failed in BC! The ideocracy is mind boggling!
    Well loo on the bright side, we will always have pinks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeRoss View Post
    King fishing should have been completely shut down a bunch of years ago. Like they did with the razor clams. Close it for years. No catch and release. No targeting kings. No bait until August.
    Absolutely correct.
    “I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” Physicist ― Richard Feynman


  17. #17

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    Its a seriously bad mess coming. Commercial fisheries catch kings as bycatch, but if commercial fishing is drastically curtailed in order to increase king numbers, red salmon numbers will easily go over escapement goals.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by yamwrench View Post
    The commies revealed their true colors with total disregard for the future of Kenai kings in filing the suit. I support king restrictions including limiting the number of guides as there are way too many guides targeting kings on the river. That being said the ESSN king harvest alone was well above the creel harvest on large kings (189 more) and all size kings (533 more) as of August 4. The greed and entitlement exhibited by the commies suing to fish regardless is troubling. I am glad the judge denied their motion in the interests of all future users. I still question the rationale behind state or federal taxpayers contributing tax dollars to a welfare fund when the commies have a bad year.
    "The Commies" don't all agree on everything. CIFF is a relatively small group, and a lot of "commies" don't agree with them...

    I'd also point out that while the escapement is currently 11,273, that's only large fish. If one assumes that around 60% of the run is big fish (probably lower I think, but whatever), then they've counted over 15,000 fish in the late run alone. More if the proportion of large fish is smaller. If you combine ER/LR in figures of total fish (all sizes), we'll likely have put around 25,000 Kings on the gravel this year. Not saying that's great, but it's important to remember that 9,000 figure stated earlier is only large fish.

    Also, as of the August 1th update, total projected ESSN large Kenai King harvest was 691. Estimated Kenai inriver sport harvest of large Kings was 931.
    https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/sf/FishC...nseasonSummary

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    Quote Originally Posted by smithtb View Post
    "The Commies" don't all agree on everything. CIFF is a relatively small group, and a lot of "commies" don't agree with them...

    I'd also point out that while the escapement is currently 11,273, that's only large fish. If one assumes that around 60% of the run is big fish (probably lower I think, but whatever), then they've counted over 15,000 fish in the late run alone. More if the proportion of large fish is smaller. If you combine ER/LR in figures of total fish (all sizes), we'll likely have put around 25,000 Kings on the gravel this year. Not saying that's great, but it's important to remember that 9,000 figure stated earlier is only large fish.

    Also, as of the August 1th update, total projected ESSN large Kenai King harvest was 691. Estimated Kenai inriver sport harvest of large Kings was 931.
    https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/sf/FishC...nseasonSummary
    You can bet that both those harvest numbers are under reported. And let's not overlook the fact that C&R kills Kings, no matter what the studies on C&R claim. You let some tourist drag a foul hooked King around by it's tail for an hour so he can tell his buddie back home about the long battle, and that fish won't survive.
    Hunt Ethically. Respect the Environment.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by smithtb View Post
    "The Commies" don't all agree on everything. CIFF is a relatively small group, and a lot of "commies" don't agree with them...

    I'd also point out that while the escapement is currently 11,273, that's only large fish. If one assumes that around 60% of the run is big fish (probably lower I think, but whatever), then they've counted over 15,000 fish in the late run alone. More if the proportion of large fish is smaller. If you combine ER/LR in figures of total fish (all sizes), we'll likely have put around 25,000 Kings on the gravel this year. Not saying that's great, but it's important to remember that 9,000 figure stated earlier is only large fish.

    Also, as of the August 1th update, total projected ESSN large Kenai King harvest was 691. Estimated Kenai inriver sport harvest of large Kings was 931.
    https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/sf/FishC...nseasonSummary
    As of 8/11/19 according to ADFG run summary the ESSN total Kenai king harvest was 2208 with 972 large kings while the creel harvest was 1652 total kings. This does not include kings caught by the drifters and gillnetters in Cook Inlet. The commie harvest is significantly higher than the creel harvest. As previously stated I also think there are way too many guides targeting Kenai kings.

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