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Thread: A round for bear in 10mm.

  1. #1
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    Default A round for bear in 10mm.

    I'm considering a few different choices in deciding of a handgun to carry while fishing or hiking. I'm thinking about getting either a Ruger Redhawk .44 w/ 5 1/2" barrel.
    Or a Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan in either .44 or possibly .454/.45Colt.

    Comparing apples to oranges, I realize...but I want to give some consideration to a Glock model 20 in 10mm. I know that a 10mm rates lower than the three calibers mentioned above (from reading here).

    But what about the Glock 20 with this round:
    http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...roducts_id=105

    is 1,300 fps with a 200 Grain bullet adequate? If not this round, are there any that could be recommended in 10mm.

    Or should I just go with a Ruger chambered in one of the other calibers I mentioned before.
    Thanks for any opinions. I'm giving consideration to the Glock, since I already own a Glock .40.

    Appreciate it.

    Mitch

  2. #2
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    Default

    When it comes to bears, bigger is usually better and something better than nothing. That said, the 10mm is a very capable cartridge. Its accurate, powerful, and carryable. I have big bore handguns, but I find its always the 10 thats on my belt. Its easier to carry around than a large revolver, and you can probably get 14 or 15 rounds in the Glock.
    The 200 gr load would be good for what you want, though I dont think that it matters as much in a just-in-case gun as it would a hunting gun. If you have to use a JIC gun, the shots will probably be close and fast, and bullet size will be less important that where they go.
    To answer your question though, the DT 200gr load is good, my own anti bear loads are probably similiar, though I havent had the oppurtunity to try them.
    Conclusion: get the 10! You wont be dissapointed.

  3. #3
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    Just a tought on those that consider autoloaders. If the reason you're considering the 10 is the increased number of rounds in the mag, consider this. In an actual charge, you can only expect to get off one aimed shot. You might get off more, but you shouldn't trust your life on it. Also, when one get's excited and madly pops off rounds, accuracy is not great. The more rounds you fire to little effect, the worse your accuracy gets.

    A good da revolver chambered in 44 mag or larger is the prudent choice for bear defense. Also combined with sufficient practice to master the gun.

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    Go with the Ruger in 45 colt if you reload. If not, go with the Ruger in 44 mag. Plenty of factory loads, and definately capapble.

  5. #5

    Default 10mm

    This round was primarily made for critters of the two legged variety and works pretty well for that. Bears........a whole different story. If you were using it for hunting it would be one thing but for a defensive weapon against a PO'd bear....NO! Go for the 454. It can shoot the 45's for training purposes.
    Good luck.
    RIDE TALL, SHOOT STRAIGHT AND ALWAYS TELL THE TRUTH

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    Default Thanks for the advice

    I appreciate the help, I' just narrowing down my choices.
    The general consensus seems to be...go with the 454/45, I've read a bit about the 44, as well, so I know that seems to be a common choice also.
    There are some 10mm fans out there also, which is how I first found out about the round I mentioned in the first post.
    I'll probably go with either the 454/45 or the 44, then. I'm thinking about the Ruger Alaskan. If I go with a 44 then I might choose the 4" or 5 1/2" Ruger. I like the Alaskan, I just don't know about that 2 3/4" barrel.
    When choosing a round for either of these calibers, what is considered the minimum standard for a bear "just in case" round. Meaning bullet weight and velocity. I know to go with a hard cast bullet, from reading here.
    But what's the minimum? for each caliber......300 Grains @ 1000 fps for example. Or is this the right way to approach the problem. I'm not a handloader, so my choices are among the loads I can purchase locally.
    Thanks again, gentlemen. I really appreciate you expertise.
    Regards,
    Mitch

  7. #7

    Default Practice

    Paul H hit the nail squarely on the head. Go as big as you can handle, and PRACTICE, PRACTICE and PRACTICE some more until you can shoot that gun in your sleep, then practice regularly. No weapon is worth anything to you if you cannot wield it in pitch dark, in a tent or in a close encounter that you won't have time to read the instructions or figure out how it works.

    As someone that has faced a real charge, he is spot-on when he said you won't get off more than one or two good shots. The bigger the better. Personally, I carry a .454 Casull with 300 grainers as the minimum while fishing. I carry a large rifle (.338 or .375) when hunting any big game in bear country.
    Now just why in the hell do I have to press "1" for English???

  8. #8

    Default short barrels

    Those 2 and 3 inch guns are only a marketing ploy, in my opinion. I would never recommend anyone carry one here in Alaska. Lower 48, maybe, but we have really big bears here, and the remote chance you have a bad encounter, you need more than a flame-thrower, as the muzzle blast from these are fierce. Go with anything over 5 inches. I personally won't carry any handgun under 7.5 inches, as every bit of energy you can squeeze out of a handgun is vital in these encounters. Remember, even a powerhouse handgun is weak in comparison to a rifle considered minimally suitable for brown/grizzly bear defense, such as the .30-06.
    Now just why in the hell do I have to press "1" for English???

  9. #9

    Default Glock 20

    Tenmm is right, I carried the Glock 20 with a 6" ported barrel on duty for over ten years and I had no problem putting 3 or 4 rounds into a six inch circle in under 2 seconds. But then I shot the LAPD "FATS" every year and put over 3000 rounds threw it. Go with the Glock!

  10. #10
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    Mike McNett done a comparison sometime back on the 10 and .44 mag in some ballistic gel. The 10mm was loaded to 1300fps with a Beartooth 200grn hardcast and the .44 mag with a 300 grain-if I am incorrect feel free to point that out to me. But anyways the bullets penetrated darn near the same distance-recalling off the top of my knot here.

    One is .401" and the other .430" dia. and I know a bigger bullet is preferred. Understand by the same token, shoot only with what you can accurately enough and many choose the .357 Magnum with hardcast for the reason of recoil difficulties.

    Penetration is key surely but you're not going to do any good if you cannot manage recoil and not hit the target, better to go down a caliber or so.

    After Mike done that test with the 2 handgun calibers I went an bought a KKM 6"bbl like he had on the test and 500 rounds of the Beartooth 200 grainers and still no handgun to date-what gives? I do have one nicely built 10mm as my screen saver-does that count? One day I will get a Glock 20 and so I will just continue to dream and wait.......

    For now one of my .44 mags or .45 LC's will do just fine-as for protection, not to go and believe it is better than a long gun but better than a big stick or a poke in the eye.

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    Default redhawk

    I have a redhawk with the 7" barrel. Years ago I shot with a Trooper who was also a SERT member. I felt comfortable enough to take it south for wild boar.
    Later I found I did not carry it much and realized with the long barrel it was just bulky. So I don't carry it often and therefore do not shoot it much, and as a consequence, shoot rather poorly when I do.
    I bought a S&W 1006 10mm this summer. I like it a lot. Still have not shot it enough to justify carrying it in the field. I want to buy a 9mm to practice with as it will be much cheaper to shoot.
    Hawken is right, whatever you get practice a lot. And if you really don't know much about handguns, go to a range and ask for help. It really is ok for guys to do that, we don't have to pretend to know everything. Build good habits early, so you are not like me trying to break bad ones.
    Synopsis? Knowing what I know now I would rather have the shorter barrel .44 than the long one, and wish I had bought the 10mm years ago when they were cheaper.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ak River Rat View Post
    Synopsis? Knowing what I know now I would rather have the shorter barrel .44 than the long one, and wish I had bought the 10mm years ago when they were cheaper.
    ARR, you may know this already but you can have that barrel shortened, I took my 7.5" Bisley over to Gary at ArcticGunwrk some yrs back and had him take it down to 4 5/8's-well balanced and still easily managed in the field. But I know, it is not a Redhwk, I gave my son a 5 1/2" 45 LC Redhwk and it is still heavy- he is some 225# and is quite strong so more power to him.

    Wish I could have bought a Kimber in the 10 or the Smith when I was in the dough but have settled with the thought I can easily afford one day a Glock-"plastic tough" ha.

    Yes, cannot say enough how important it is to know you're handgun and know it well. Carry it often as one mentions too. Has to be you're buddy or a best friend-keep it clean.

  13. #13
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    If your hand is large enough look at the Desert Ego in .44 or .50AE. The barrel is much lower so there is less muzzle flip, and you can get a couple of shots off quickly due to far less recoil (at least for the .44).

  14. #14

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    In a high stress situation you aren't going to be thinking. You'll be running on pure instinct, doing what your body has been trained to do. If it's been trained to shoot the semi that's what your "mind" will be shooting, no matter what you actually are holding in your hand.

    I have no qualms about the power of the 10 with those loads. I'm especially happy that it's hard cast with the large meplat. That tells me it will perform on game lots better than conventional rounds.

    If it's easier for you to carry, if your accustomed to it, if you are more likely to get enough practice and you do so, I wouldn't hesitate to pick up the 10. But if you're more accustomed to a revolver the other choices would make more sense.

    I kinda avoid semis mostly because I do my practice in the field rather than on the range, and I HATE searching brush for brass. But that's the horse I'm spuring, and it doesn't say a thing about the horse you're riding.

  15. #15

    Default hmmm...

    I might as well throw my .02 in the fray as well. I trust my life to a Glock every day, yet I wouldn't carry one for bear. Even with "pumped" loads you are shooting a load that is basically equal to a .357 mag with equally "pumped" loads. The .41 mag will shoot a 250gr bullet at about the same velocity, and a .44 will shoot a 300gr bullet at least that fast. If you have a Ruger Redhawk, you can get Buffalo Bore .44 +P+ ammo that propels a 340gr hard-cast bullet at an advertised velocity of 1478 fps! Go to the .454 and it only gets better with the added bonus of being able to shoot lighter and cheaper .45 Colt loads for practice. The 10mm is at the low end of the scale IMHO and I wouldn't recommend it unless you can't hit accurately with a larger caliber.

    With all that said, I don't carry a handgun for bear unless it is extremely impractical to carry my 45/70 GG or a 12ga loaded with Brennekes. I'm considered an "expert" with my Glock, but handguns just aren't as easy to accurately control as long guns. Having said that, you need to decide if you would actually keep the long gun on you rather than having it leaned against a tree!

    Oh, I wouldn't recommend the Desert Eagle for anything other than fun at the range or possibly a boat anchor. To put it bluntly, for any practical purpose there are so many guns that are more reliable, more powerful, less costly, less weighty, and safer than the DE. It's great for elevating testosterone levels though.

    I think that may have been more than $.02 worth of text! Ha!

  16. #16
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    Default akav8r

    That's a good .02.
    After giving consideration to all of the choices, I decided to get a Ruger Alaskan 454/45 which I just picked up.
    I'll get a 45/70 Marlin guide gun at some point down the road also.
    I have 2 Glocks, a .40 cal. that I carry, and a 9mm that I also have in order to shoot more. 9mm being a bit cheaper.
    I decided not to get a 10mm and went with the Alaskan instead.
    I used to reload years ago, and sold all of the equipment to a friend before I joined the Army. I've only reloaded for .45ACP.
    But I'm going to get the reloading kit that RCBS offers and start loading for .45 colt, and eventually 454.
    In the mean time, I've bought some .45colt and 454 ammo to take to the range tomorrow.
    I agree with you on the compromise of a handgun. I'll get that guide gun here shortly. So, considering that I'm going to have an Alaskan and a guide gun, I chose to get the Alaskan first.
    It sure is fun "shopping" around for a new gun. Thanks for the advice.
    Now I'm looking forward to "shoot, reload, repeat."

    Regards,
    Mitch

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    Quote Originally Posted by sarge View Post
    This round was primarily made for critters of the two legged variety and works pretty well for that. Bears........a whole different story. If you were using it for hunting it would be one thing but for a defensive weapon against a PO'd bear....NO! Go for the 454. It can shoot the 45's for training purposes.
    Good luck.
    Agreed. I've heard too many stories of .44 Mags not stopping bears quickly enough (and yes, everybody has the one-shot story to tell too.) With the .454 Casull, the .480 Ruger, and the .500 S&W ...you don't hear the stories about not stopping the bear very well anymore. I don't know of anybody that carries an autoloader for bear (spray and pray?). You should TRY OUT the various larger calibers and then buy the largest that you can handle reasonably well. When you need it for protection, you'll be holding the gun plenty tight. And try the gun in the great outdoors first ...the noise of shooting these things in walled shooting ranges or under a roof can fool you into thinking that they are more than they are ...and fool you into thinking they are harder to shoot than they are too.

    Brian

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    Default 454 Alaskan

    I shot the Alaskan the other day at Birchwood. With .45 colt loads (Alaskan Backpacker) and Corbon .454 Casull loads. The recoil wasn't too bad, I felt it was tolerable. I need a lot more time shooting .45 colt loads to get more familiar shooting a revolver. and then I'll spend more time shooting .454 rounds.
    It was alot of fun to shoot.
    You're right, the loud noise makes it seem like it's more recoil.

    Later,
    Mitch

  19. #19

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    "I've heard too many stories of .44 Mags not stopping bears quickly enough (and yes, everybody has the one-shot story to tell too.) With the .454 Casull, the .480 Ruger, and the .500 S&W ...you don't hear the stories about not stopping the bear very well anymore."

    I haven't heard of anyone actually shooting a bear with the 454, 480 or 500. Love to read the accounts if anyone can point me to links.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    "I've heard too many stories of .44 Mags not stopping bears quickly enough (and yes, everybody has the one-shot story to tell too.) With the .454 Casull, the .480 Ruger, and the .500 S&W ...you don't hear the stories about not stopping the bear very well anymore."

    I haven't heard of anyone actually shooting a bear with the 454, 480 or 500. Love to read the accounts if anyone can point me to links.

    I would agree, handgun vs bear encounters are like finding a pair of chicken lips. But for hunting occasions they have been used and from what I gather not much more effective than a good 44 round, I do like the 454 for close in work though. Never used a 500 but the 475 LB is a step up from the 45 calibers. Bear defense use of a handgun is a rarity and when we hear about it, it seems to be after or during the chewing exercise. Giving some creditability to 'small and handy' concept.

    I wonder about the comments of a big bore revolver not nearly as effective as a rifle or you want all the energy you can get. All that is needed is full penetration with a 44ish diameter bullet in the right spot. That last part being the hardest part of the equation. A rifle is rarely ever as effective as we want and almost never results in an immediate stop. A handgun is far more effective because it is handy, not leaning against a tree or over on the gravel bar. Well placed frontal shots up close with 416 class rifle and up seem to be the exception but other than that it takes time for an animal to kick off. If the shot is lethally placed, and the bullet is correct for the task, it will be lethal. When immediate stopping shots are a must we must hit the mellon or some CNS component, not some soft furry part. In a frontal shot with the snout extended there is lots of bone to get through. Bigger, heavier, and harder bullets will be much appreciated when that time comes.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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