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  1. #41
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    all i heard at the show last weekend and from many folks calling me for gear is "we were rec fisherman but now we're doing the commercial fishery" so i guess the boot is on the other foot now. Pull your eye patches down and rape and plunder the fishery while it lasts boys !!! Who's going to get the blame when the crash comes ???

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    Quote Originally Posted by potbuilder View Post
    all i heard at the show last weekend and from many folks calling me for gear is "we were rec fisherman but now we're doing the commercial fishery" so i guess the boot is on the other foot now.
    Interesting. Obviously folks can take more shrimp when going commercial, but the licensing of the boat, required safety gear, etc. is no joke. And of course the cost of 30 pots, lines, buoys, etc.

    99 boats registered for this year's commercial fishery, but if trends from recent years hold, the effort will drop dramatically after the first few weeks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by potbuilder View Post
    all i heard at the show last weekend and from many folks calling me for gear is "we were rec fisherman but now we're doing the commercial fishery" ...... Who's going to get the blame when the crash comes ???

    Heck why not buy a few extra pots and go rape and plunder with the commercial guys, I think you will continue to see this trend because they keep taking from the sport fisherman again and give to the commercial guys. Why not get the permit and sell some shrimp to help cover costs of fuel?

    The blame of the crash should fall directly on the shoulders of Fish and Game for opening this fishery to commercial harvest. If we look at numbers this year there is over 170,000 lbs of estimated shrimp to be able to be harvested, If we take the sport catch from last year of the sport guys at 128,000 lbs and get rid of commercial that would leave 42,000 lbs of surplus shrimp to continue to stay in the water. I have a hard time believing that the catch per sport boat that turned in a permit last year averaged almost 60lbs of shrimp, that number to me seems high but I have never known a fisherman to lie about the size of his catch so this must be true. If we take the 60lb average per boat that means that the shrimp fishery could sustain another 750 boats at current catch rates. But instead they let a few commercial boats in and now we see pots decreased for the Recreational fisherman within the first season and every few years after that since reopening the commercial fishery.

    My memory could be wrong but I ran the numbers a few years ago when they dropped the sport guys to 4 pots and if I remember correctly the average catch per boat was somewhere around 40lbs per boat with the 5 pot limit, Ill have to see if I can find those numbers again to be sure though.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Interesting. Obviously folks can take more shrimp when going commercial, but the licensing of the boat, required safety gear, etc. is no joke. And of course the cost of 30 pots, lines, buoys, etc.

    99 boats registered for this year's commercial fishery, but if trends from recent years hold, the effort will drop dramatically after the first few weeks.
    1 guy gets the permit and 5 buddies contribute their pots and viola we're commercial fishermen !

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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0321Tony View Post
    Heck why not buy a few extra pots and go rape and plunder with the commercial guys, I think you will continue to see this trend because they keep taking from the sport fisherman again and give to the commercial guys. Why not get the permit and sell some shrimp to help cover costs of fuel?

    The blame of the crash should fall directly on the shoulders of Fish and Game for opening this fishery to commercial harvest. If we look at numbers this year there is over 170,000 lbs of estimated shrimp to be able to be harvested, If we take the sport catch from last year of the sport guys at 128,000 lbs and get rid of commercial that would leave 42,000 lbs of surplus shrimp to continue to stay in the water. I have a hard time believing that the catch per sport boat that turned in a permit last year averaged almost 60lbs of shrimp, that number to me seems high but I have never known a fisherman to lie about the size of his catch so this must be true. If we take the 60lb average per boat that means that the shrimp fishery could sustain another 750 boats at current catch rates. But instead they let a few commercial boats in and now we see pots decreased for the Recreational fisherman within the first season and every few years after that since reopening the commercial fishery.

    My memory could be wrong but I ran the numbers a few years ago when they dropped the sport guys to 4 pots and if I remember correctly the average catch per boat was somewhere around 40lbs per boat with the 5 pot limit, Ill have to see if I can find those numbers again to be sure though.
    Like i've said before the com guys have never exceeded their quota if fact they have only reached it in the last 3 years. On the other side the rec's have exceeded it every year. I see your thinking get rid of the com guys and give their quota to the rec guys yeah will save the fishery. 60 lbs for a season high ? I used to catch 50lbs of tails a day out of 5 pots so 60lbs for the season is really low if you ask me. F&G does need to make the rec's report at least monthly so they know if over harvest is going on and shut down the fishery if it is. The com's have to report every time they land shrimp both by phone and then with reports mailed in. It should be the same for everyone in the fishery. Whats the old saying "figures don't lie liars figure"In my opinion if F&G would of had a clue of what the rec's were catching last year and closed down the fishery early then the pot limit would still be 4 pots this year.

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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by potbuilder View Post
    Like i've said before the com guys have never exceeded their quota if fact they have only reached it in the last 3 years. On the other side the rec's have exceeded it every year. I see your thinking get rid of the com guys and give their quota to the rec guys yeah will save the fishery. 60 lbs for a season high ? I used to catch 50lbs of tails a day out of 5 pots so 60lbs for the season is really low if you ask me. F&G does need to make the rec's report at least monthly so they know if over harvest is going on and shut down the fishery if it is. The com's have to report every time they land shrimp both by phone and then with reports mailed in. It should be the same for everyone in the fishery. Whats the old saying "figures don't lie liars figure"In my opinion if F&G would of had a clue of what the rec's were catching last year and closed down the fishery early then the pot limit would still be 4 pots this year.
    Exactly, get rid of the comm guys completely. This should have never been opened back up to commercial fishing. Right now what we have is about 50-75 boats taking from 2500. When did the sport guys start going over their ghl? Right after they took a large chunk of the thl and gave it to a few commercial boats. Get rid of the comm guys and the catch wouldn't even be close to the thl. Instead there's going to be a rush on getting commercial permits, as they continue to restrict the rec guys more and more we're gonna see more people get a commercial permit..

    How was the commercial fishery doing when you were catching 50lbs in a day?

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    Should only people who have the expendable cash to own a boat have access to Alaskaís shrimp resources? I get the frustration from some sport fishermen, but at the same time I see merit in making shrimp available to the non-boat-owning public.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    99 boats registered for this year's commercial fishery, but if trends from recent years hold, the effort will drop dramatically after the first few weeks.
    How many registered in previous years? The reason effort drops dramatically after the first few weeks could be the that the rec turned com guys caught enough in a few trips to keep them and all their buddies in shrimp for the year and no need to keep catching something you have more than enough of and paid the bills. I've thought about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan54 View Post
    How many registered in previous years? The reason effort drops dramatically after the first few weeks could be the that the rec turned com guys caught enough in a few trips to keep them and all their buddies in shrimp for the year and no need to keep catching something you have more than enough of and paid the bills. I've thought about it.
    I think that the primary reason that the effort drops off is that a significant number of the commercial shrimpers are also commercial salmon fishermen, and once May hits they shift fisheries and head to the Copper River. Itís the same reason why the majority of the sablefish effort is focused in April and early May. Iíll see if I can find numbers of registered boats for previous years.

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    The last three years have had 84, 83, and 72 vessels registered, with 84 being the number registered the last time area 1 was opened. Most years only 30-40 boats actually participate in any given fishing period, and again, effort generally drops quickly. I would expect that Unakwik will get a bunch of pressure early on and will get closed after a period or two, and then effort will decline to low levels until the fishery reaches its quota and is closed. Only an extra 15 boats registered this year, so it doesnít seem like thereís a flood of sport guys signing up as commercial fishermen, but maybe a few. Will be interesting to see if effort is markedly different from past years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Should only people who have the expendable cash to own a boat have access to Alaskaís shrimp resources? I get the frustration from some sport fishermen, but at the same time I see merit in making shrimp available to the non-boat-owning public.
    How does that differ from moose or sheep meat? Don't see much of that at Fred Meyers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian in AK View Post
    How does that differ from moose or sheep meat? Don't see much of that at Fred Meyers.
    Fair point, but fish resources and wild game resources have been managed differently for a long time. Most anyone can go chase moose for the cost of a tank of gas. The same isnít exactly true for shrimp. 95% of the fish I eat I catch myself with a sport license, but Iím glad that I have the opportunity to buy crab and tuna once in a while. Iím glad that midwestern kids get cod or pollack fish sticks in their school lunches on occasion. Iím glad that salmon and halibut arenít only savored by those with the resources to own a boat or pay for a charter. Last summer my wife and I bought some shrimp on the way to a camping trip so that we could have some over the fire with our kids. Iím glad we had that option, and Iím glad that tourists that visit alaska get that same opportunity when they dine locally at restaurants that feature local fish and shellfish.

    The sport fishery continues to grow, but Iíll wager that folks will still catch some bugs with three pots.

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    I agree with your point 100% if the resource can handle the added pressure. I'm not a biologist but it seems to me this fragile fishery can't handle the pressure we are putting on it. The recreational fishery was the first to be re-opened when the population came back, I think the commercial fishery should be the first to close when it declines. If the tourists have to eat Taiwanese farmed shrimp I'm okay with that

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian in AK View Post
    I agree with your point 100% if the resource can handle the added pressure. I'm not a biologist but it seems to me this fragile fishery can't handle the pressure we are putting on it. The recreational fishery was the first to be re-opened when the population came back, I think the commercial fishery should be the first to close when it declines. If the tourists have to eat Taiwanese farmed shrimp I'm okay with that
    ADF&G is responsible for managing populations, not allocations. What you are talking about is the responsibility of the board of fish e.g., who should have access to a resource, a societal issue that ADF&G has no authority to address.
    If you take issue with the population assessment methods and/or management then that would be in ADF&G's court.
    A thin, but highly important distinction between the researchers/managers and policy makers.

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    Good fishing and be safe to all the shrimpers on opening day !

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    Quote Originally Posted by potbuilder View Post
    all i heard at the show last weekend and from many folks calling me for gear is "we were rec fisherman but now we're doing the commercial fishery" so i guess the boot is on the other foot now. Pull your eye patches down and rape and plunder the fishery while it lasts boys !!! Who's going to get the blame when the crash comes ???
    People moving into the commercial fishery will not cause a crash, since the annual harvest is limited in pounds on the commercial side. In a way, this is just an allocation shift from the commercial side to the recreational side. As for the argument that the commercial guys give access to the rest of the state, that only holds if they sell the shrimp to the open market. Some keep them for themselves, and others fish for specif buyers, such as private lodges, so saying that the commercial guys provide public access is a pretty broad statement.
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    First opened I've missed in years. Moving treestands and planting food plots for deer in NY.

    Hillary moved to NY and I moved out.


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    There should be a regulation that if you commercial shrimp you can't sport shrimp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otnotdoit View Post
    There should be a regulation that if you commercial shrimp you can't sport shrimp.
    So if you commercial fish, you can't sport fish either??? What's fair for one should be fair for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Should only people who have the expendable cash to own a boat have access to Alaskaís shrimp resources? I get the frustration from some sport fishermen, but at the same time I see merit in making shrimp available to the non-boat-owning public.
    Couldn't agree with you more. I'll never understand the arrogant and myopic view of one class of fisherman thinking the resource is theirs, and theirs alone.
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