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Thread: Emotionally involved with Case Gauges.

  1. #1
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    Default Emotionally involved with Case Gauges.

    I purchased a buncha, Frontier brand, 308 Win cases at a gun show. They appeared to be once fired, but I have no way of knowing for sure. I necked them down by sizing them with my 7mm-08 FL sizing die, and I've been using them for reduced velocity cast bullet competition without any known issues.

    After sizing them, after using them, possibly up to several times, I ran them each through my Lyman Case Gauge, same like a Wilson Case Gauge, except made by Lyman. Out of the batch of 50 or so, there were 3 , that had improper headspace. The shoulder was too long / too far forward. I ANNEALED them and FL sized them again with the die adjusted for full contact and cam-over. One case, then fit the gauge like the others, but the other Two, were STILL over max by some .040 plus, nearly the thickness of the rim.

    These 2 cases have now, been FL sized several times with plenty lube, inside and out. They seem to have lost their memory. I'm quite willing to Trash them, but I would really like to know why they don't stay sized, esp, after I Annealed them.

    I will be using Wilson Case Gauges for other cartridges, and may run into this again.

    Perhaps, some more experienced than me, handloader can shed some light on this phenomena.

    Thanks, SOTN
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  2. #2

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    Are you lubing the inside of the case neck when sizing?
    "Lay in the weeds and wait, and when you get your chance to say something, say something good."
    Merle Haggard

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownbear View Post
    are you lubing the inside of the case neck when sizing?
    yes.

    Sotn
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  4. #4
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    Thanks for responding, BB:

    Having done some research of stuff I don't understand, I now believe that these cases were work hardened, and while annealing was in order, I Annealed them improperly.

    Beyond thet, I reeley cawn't say.

    Thanks agin,
    SOTN
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  5. #5

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    Good to see you back on here SOTN!
    First off I would try sizing one minus the expander plug in the die. If you got them too soft when annealing it could be that the expander plug is stretching the soft brass back out.... just a guess. I know how meticulous you are but are you sure itís the shoulder coming in contact and not the area closer to the base of the case where it starts to thicken?

    I had around a thousand 243 once fired, unprocessed range brass. I resized all of it using Hornady dies and One Shot lube. I ran every piece of that brass through the Wilson case gauge that you graciously sent me. 73 out of the one thousand would not fit into the gauge. I colored a couple of those cases black with a marker and then stuck them back in the case gauge to see if I could get an indication as to where they were making contact and it was on low on the case wall! I have a number 3 shell holder with the top side that goes up against the die ground down. I resized those brass again using that shell holder which allowed the ram on the press to go just a bit higher pushing the case an equally proportionate distance up into the die. The ones that I tried all then fit into the case gauge. In my situation these cases were all fired in unknown to me chambers prior to me acquiring them. Some apparently were shot in loose chambers and the brass was expanding low on the case wall below what normally would go into the sizing die. Once I got that lower portion of the wall squeezed back down they were a fit. However since they went further into the die the shoulder was set further back that it should have been. They fireformed back to where they needed to be.

    Since yours were fired in a known gun and part of the resized ammo is fine and the rest is not is perplexing! Hornady Frontier brass has always been consistent to my recollection.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmerkeithclone View Post
    Good to see you back on here SOTN!
    First off I would try sizing one minus the expander plug in the die. If you got them too soft when annealing it could be that the expander plug is stretching the soft brass back out.... just a guess. I know how meticulous you are but are you sure itís the shoulder coming in contact and not the area closer to the base of the case where it starts to thicken?

    I had around a thousand 243 once fired, unprocessed range brass. I resized all of it using Hornady dies and One Shot lube. I ran every piece of that brass through the Wilson case gauge that you graciously sent me. 73 out of the one thousand would not fit into the gauge. I colored a couple of those cases black with a marker and then stuck them back in the case gauge to see if I could get an indication as to where they were making contact and it was on low on the case wall! I have a number 3 shell holder with the top side that goes up against the die ground down. I resized those brass again using that shell holder which allowed the ram on the press to go just a bit higher pushing the case an equally proportionate distance up into the die. The ones that I tried all then fit into the case gauge. In my situation these cases were all fired in unknown to me chambers prior to me acquiring them. Some apparently were shot in loose chambers and the brass was expanding low on the case wall below what normally would go into the sizing die. Once I got that lower portion of the wall squeezed back down they were a fit. However since they went further into the die the shoulder was set further back that it should have been. They fireformed back to where they needed to be.

    Since yours were fired in a known gun and part of the resized ammo is fine and the rest is not is perplexing! Hornady Frontier brass has always been consistent to my recollection.
    EKC:
    OK, I will do dat, although, I've been satisfied that since I used plenty of lube on the inside neck, making sure it was on the shoulder junction AND there is so little resistance when the expander Is pulled through the neck, that this is not lengthening the shoulder. It doesn't hurt to check, though, and eliminate it as a possibility. I really think that the cases are being sized, but they spring back to oversize, per the gauge.

    Remember, these cases were originally 308s purchased at a gun show, and of unknown history.

    In light of your experience, I'm gonna try getting more sizing of those two cases. Maybe, I can put a feeler gauge under the shell holder.

    Those gauges are spose to be relieved, except at the Datum line for headspace.

    BTW, I gauged a batch of 7x57 brass and found some with long shoulders, and they were all corrected by FL resizing, without annealing.

    Thanks for weighing in on this perplexing issue.

    SOTN
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

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