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Thread: Slow and heavy

  1. #21

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    How about a .35 Remington and load up some 220 grain Speer Hot Core bullets at about 1,900 fps mv? Nosler makes a 210 grain Long Range Accubond bullet you could slow it down in both of the .30 calibers you have.

    I usually shoot moose in the lungs with Barnes X bullets and don't think they give excessive meat damage. I drive them at about 2,800 fps mv out of my 30-06 and .338 Winny.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by yukon254 View Post
    I always thought that 338ME would be a dandy round....
    A little tamer, but one of my hunting buds shoots an original Winnie 1886 in 33 Winchester. His load is a 200 grain Hornady FP at 2,000fps. He's killed more moose, elk, black bear and deer with it than anyone I know with any other gun. He's a deadly shot and a close stalker for shots inside 100 yards, but the 33 has to claim some of the credit for all those kills.
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  3. #23
    Member Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    I'm back in NY whitetail hunting. I brought some 150 gr. softpoints loaded with 37 gr. of leverlution powder. What a pleasure to shoot at deer in cover under 50 yards. Surprisingly accurate and a pleasure on the shoulder.

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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    A little tamer, but one of my hunting buds shoots an original Winnie 1886 in 33 Winchester. His load is a 200 grain Hornady FP at 2,000fps. He's killed more moose, elk, black bear and deer with it than anyone I know with any other gun. He's a deadly shot and a close stalker for shots inside 100 yards, but the 33 has to claim some of the credit for all those kills.
    Hmm, a gun store I have dealt with a lot has an 86 in 33 Winchester for sale right now. It looks like its in good shape too.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by yukon254 View Post
    Hmm, a gun store I have dealt with a lot has an 86 in 33 Winchester for sale right now. It looks like its in good shape too.
    Ah man.... You'll always regret it if you don't snag it!

    Just one head's up: Hornady has long since quit making their 200 grain flat nose. I used to load for my bud, and I bought up the last 1,000 I could find a when he started loading for himself long time ago. According to the pundits you can load the 200 grain gummy nose just fine, but I'd be looking instead to Hawk Bullets for their fine bullets (Scroll down that page). I see they make .338 flat points for the 33 Winnie in 180, 200 and 215 grain versions. Haven't used that particular bullet, but experience with lots of others they make have left nothing but toasty feelings and respect.
    "Lay in the weeds and wait, and when you get your chance to say something, say something good."
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by yukon254 View Post
    Or you could go this route MT. My son picked up this early model 375 last spring. He just took this bull out on his trapline a couple of days back. Shot was 150 yards. He was using some old Barnes originals I found in MO last spring. Very little meat damage and the bullet exited even at that range. Attachment 96932

    My son spends most of the winter out on the trapline with his wife and 18-month old son. This bull was the first big game animal my grandson has ever seen on the ground. My son said the first sound he uttered when he walked up to it was "num num," ! Little guy is learning the ropes early!
    Within close range, the 255 grain barnes O fired from a 375 winchester is a puzzling lesson in field performance where velocity doesn't mean jack sht. Whether a brown bear up close, or a fat bull caribou at 150 yds, or in your son's experience, a big bull moose at 100 yards, the results are very much the same: A lethal, sufficient, effective killer of North America's biggest game. Some time ago, and mediocre internet guy ignorantly dismissed the 375 Winchester because his handloads wouldn't achieve 2000 fps with a 255 grainer.

    The very fact that Jesse Occumpaugh can take the cheapest 30-30 mod. 94 and rebore it, the 375 represents a truly affordable woods rifle. In Maine, 30-30's can be had all day long, for $130-$150 used. For years, I've made 375 brass from the cheapest of rifle brass you could possibly find: 30-30 brass.

    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...ters-out-there

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    ...dismissed the 375 Winchester because his handloads wouldn't achieve 2000 fps with a 255 grainer.
    Guy was either a fool or bragging about his lack of experience. Haven't done it with the 375 Winnie, but loaded down and killed deer with the zack same bullet at 1900 from one of my 375 H&H. Zowie. Sure put me on the hunt for a 375 Winnie to get the same performance in a light lever rather than a bolt, I'll tell you. Backed off from it after a near miss with a brown bear, realizing that it was sure nice to have full snort 375's backing the light load, but that's no dust on the Winnie for general hunting use.
    "Lay in the weeds and wait, and when you get your chance to say something, say something good."
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    Have been watching a Whelen on gunbroker. Might make a try for that. There has been a left hand ruger 338 rcm on there for months that doesn't sell at 740 bucks. Auction expires and it gets relisted.
    I could load the 200 gr partition to a little lower MV in the 300 and try that. Or maybe go to a 220 at a lower muzzle velocity. Plus work on 220 gr. loads in the 06. Not much time for reloading just now. Nosler makes a 300 gr. accubond in .338 that is interesting!
    Yukon, apparently that isn't a 375 HH.
    mt,

    The cheapest/quickest deal going, is to send either of your tried and true rifles off the Jesse Occumpaugh. For your standard gun, it'll come back either a 338-06, or a 35 whelen. 250 grain partitions or 250 grain a-frames at 2500-2550 fps would leave a clean hole.

    For your magnum rifle, a 358 norma would be a good one. You'd probably get right a 2500-2600 fps with the big 280 grain Swift A-frame. That controlled expansion brute would leave a clean hole at that velocity.

    Per your desire of good trajectory and lack of blood-shot meat on moose, I don't think a 338-06 could be outdone.

    Either option would be the absolute cheapest, sending the rifle regular mail. It'd be cheaper than a basic rifle scope. A heck of ah lot cheaper than a new rifle too:
    http://www.35caliber.com/

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post

    Per your desire of good trajectory and lack of blood-shot meat on moose, I don't think a 338-06 could be outdone.

    http://www.35caliber.com/
    Thanks Mainer,
    the 338-06 has been what I have leaned to the most. My 06 is an old savage 110. I can get a 338-06 savage barrel for less than the rebore price. Can even install it myself with the right tools. Midway and Brownells sell barrel kits.
    I can probably pop a 220 partition out of the wsm at 2500 and get close to what I want in meat damage and trajectory. Really would like to get a new rifle, but just doesn't seem to make sense given what I've already got. I guess a compromise would be getting the 338-06 barrel, eh? Haha!
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
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  10. #30

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    You could go even cheaper and simpler by loading down a 338 WinMag if you already own one. Bud bought one years ago and the recoil was just tearing him up in his view. I took over and worked up a load for him using the old 200-grain Hornady .338 flat points intended for the 33 Winchester at 2,500 fps. Don't recall the load and I'm far from my reloading logs at the moment. But it worked so well for him for everything from mice to moose, he took up reloading, much like my bud got so enthused about his M86 33 Winnie launching the same bullet down at 2k.

    Had coffee with the one shooting a 338 WinMag recently and he reports he's been out of the Hornadys for years, but has complete happiness with his sub of 210-grain partitions at 2700fps. He reports even flatter trajectories with the spitzer and extra velocity, but actually less meat destruction than with the slower Hornady cup and core.

    All this jinking around with reduced loads started early on for me back in the early 1960's when Jack OConnor's writings convinced me I really NEEDED a 7x57, but lack-o-jingle in my pockets forbade a new gun. I sat down at the reloading bench and used components I already owned (Hornady 154 spire point) to dupe the 7x57 loading of around 2700fps. Worked so well I started saving for a 7x57 right away, and I've always had one in my rack for the nearly 50 years since. For good reason.
    "Lay in the weeds and wait, and when you get your chance to say something, say something good."
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  11. #31
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    Ran into a guy that actually has one of these. His is called the 35 LP but apparently this Arizona gunsmith built a few different calibers. Looks like they would make good rigs for us northern hunters. 45875805_1927598674216703_368023768930451456_n.jpg45714977_1927598700883367_72703149097353216_n.jpg
    This article was written in 1963 I believe.

  12. #32

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    Can't make out what it's saying in the article, but if he's talking larger capacity rounds in levers, I'm right there with him with my 450 Alaskan (based on the 348 Winnie case) and my own design 44 (.429) Kodiak (based on a 45-70 case necked down and blown out to form a shoulder). Yessirreeeee.... Big cases and levers go together well.
    "Lay in the weeds and wait, and when you get your chance to say something, say something good."
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    Can't make out what it's saying in the article, but if he's talking larger capacity rounds in levers, I'm right there with him with my 450 Alaskan (based on the 348 Winnie case) and my own design 44 (.429) Kodiak (based on a 45-70 case necked down and blown out to form a shoulder). Yessirreeeee.... Big cases and levers go together well.
    BrownBear, the article is about the "LeverPowers." I had never heard of them before but apparently an Arizona gunsmith made a few different versions. I see that Pacific Tool & Die has the 35 LeverPower reamer in stock so someone must be building them.

  14. #34

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    Any indication of the parent case? A rimmed 35 lever round with lots more geewhiz than a 35 Remington would get my attention in a hurry. Sure, there's my M99 in 358, but I like lever guns with tube magazines, too. The lineup of those in 35 caliber is pretty undernourished. Take the taper out of a 348 like is done with the 450 Alaskan, neck it to 35 caliber, and let the fun begin!
    "Lay in the weeds and wait, and when you get your chance to say something, say something good."
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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    Any indication of the parent case? A rimmed 35 lever round with lots more geewhiz than a 35 Remington would get my attention in a hurry. Sure, there's my M99 in 358, but I like lever guns with tube magazines, too. The lineup of those in 35 caliber is pretty undernourished. Take the taper out of a 348 like is done with the 450 Alaskan, neck it to 35 caliber, and let the fun begin!
    Yea I think he used a 30/40 krag for the 35 lever power. From what I could find out he turned the rim down on them just a bit too.

  16. #36
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    The Leverpowers were made in 30-35, and 44 calibers. The 44 was pretty interesting. They were driving a 240 grain bullet @ 2300 out of a 16 inch barrel, and keeping the pressure low enough that they could use the 94 action.

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by yukon254 View Post
    hey were driving a 240 grain bullet @ 2300 out of a 16 inch barrel, and keeping the pressure low enough that they could use the 94 action.
    That's pretty low alright but getting up there in the neighborhood of the 444. I'm shooting my own 44 Kodiak in a Marlin, and I top that velocity a fair bit using 300 grain bullets. I won't even tell you where it tops out with 240's, cuzz in my experience on game they're getting pretty splosive when you get up where it's capable of going. Jacketed .429 240's just weren't built to land so hard. Using the 45-70 case in the Marlin is pretty handy cuzz there's no fiddling with the rims. Just pass a 45-70 case through the sizer, load it and go. Doubt I'd try the round in a 94 though.
    "Lay in the weeds and wait, and when you get your chance to say something, say something good."
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  18. #38
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Heya MT,

    You got a lot going for yah. Rebores aren't worth much and in some instances, will reduce the worth of the rifle. But a factory rifle with a spare barrel is worth much more.

    There are some down-sides to a 338-06. It will render your 300 WSM a spare rifle......

  19. #39

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    Mainer were your around back when Professor Murphy was moderator? He once said the only cartridge ever made on the 30-06 case that was better than the 30-06 itself was the 338-06. That was cause enough for me to build one. He was right....right there with a 338 Mag with a lot less fuss!

  20. #40
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    Heya EKC,

    I don't recall, but it makes sense to me. I can admit that the 338-06 is a better Alaskan rifle cartridge than my pet cartridges: the 358 and the 9.3x62, and any other cartridge thereafter. It is better than the entire line of WSM's, Win Mags, RUM's, SUAMs, or any standard cartridge below or above.

    A 4-5 down gun that can shoot sleek 200 grain ballistic tip boat tails at a blistering speed, from something like a light weight kimber bolt rifle. This from a bullet with minimal drift or drop. That's a cartridge that could hold steady for the furthest of shots at sheep or goat.

    Then.....be loaded heavy with 250-300 grain bullets for the biggest or meanest of north american game. A simple endeavor of resizing 30-06 brass, what could out-do a 5-down rifle like that?

    AK-lanche/luke probably owns the ultimate of Alaskan rifles with his 338-06 Kimber carbine. Even old Alaskans of Apline flavor found a light rifle to be preferable over a standard 30-06 bolt.

    If frank glasser hiked around Alaska with a rifle like that, you wouldn't of had all those memorable stories of wounded bears flailing all over, chasing him and his stupid wolf-hybrid sled dogs.

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