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Thread: whY THE GUIDE

  1. #1

    Default whY THE GUIDE

    whAT IS THE PURPOSE OF HAVING TO HIRE A GUIDE FOR bROWN BEAR HUNTING ?

  2. #2

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    Cuz the law says so.

  3. #3
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    Default

    and a couple other tiny little reasons....but for the most part some will say just so the state gets money coming in...others will say saftey...others won't know....but most won't know cause they've never hunted them. some who have, more than once, might understand.
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    Member AK-HUNT's Avatar
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    Default concur

    I like your last sentence. IN MY OPINION......until you've been on a couple brown kills that go a little out of the planned scenario, you don't have the full respect for them. I got surprised a little this spring..........again. Long story short, bear was shot with about 600 grains of lead in the boiler and 20 minutes later he came at us on a charge. That's right, played dead for 20 minutes. I was tellin my bud that even though he's been laying "dead" 100yds away, we had to wait a while longer. He was getting antsy. Next thing the bear is up and full bore barreling on us. Luckily I was hunting with dead-eye Dick and he shot it in the head.
    Brownies are extremely powerful, unpredictable and 5 times as smart as most give them credit for. Maybe this is why the guide requirement......or money. Love em!!!!!!!

  5. #5

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    Seriously, I dont know for sure why the guide requirement is there for brown bear, goats and sheep but...... IMHO if they didn't have it, there would be guys from the lower 48 lined up for miles to get a whack at em with the reduced cost and the resource would be cleaned out pretty quick. Some guys (Alaskans) complain about how much air charters cost now, I sometimes complain about the air charter/ guide relationships, I cant imagine how bad things would get if these critters didn't cost $10K-$20k to hunt em as it does now.

  6. #6

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    I have no problem paying the state the required fee for for a Brown Bear tag.But Why have to Pay a Guide 10,000 to 14,000 dollars.I can about guarantee most of these guide fees are not staying in the state .I can come up and Black Bear hunt and be in the same area as Brown Bears and NOT have to have a guide Or can Move up for a year and do whatever .It cannot be for safety because a resident that has no idea about hunting can take to the woods and land into all kinds of trouble that the seasoned hunter would not.
    Not to mention say your Black bear hunting or hunting another animal you can kill a Brown bear ....But Have to skin and turn hide over to the state .

    Not to mention once you harvest a Brown bear why would you want to kill another one ?most I know don't They don't eat them .

  7. #7
    Member wolfkiller's Avatar
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    Default more than one

    Not to mention once you harvest a Brown bear why would you want to kill another one ?most I know don't They don't eat them.

    There is about 30 walls in my house. I love bear hunting.
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    Default

    When the guides write the laws, they write them so they will make some money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bustedknee View Post
    When the guides write the laws, they write them so they will make some money.
    You said it brother. Same goes for out of staters hunting in wilderness areas in Wyoming. The laws make it very good for guides in Montana also. They are a business, they have their place and they lobby the government: they will be protected. However, very very few guides anywhere make a bunch of money, it can be a thin margin business.

    If it were a level playing field (if...) I could see a minimum caliber, breif shooting test, sex ID, very limited tags, etc. in lieu of a guide for out of staters for the rare critters.

  10. #10

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    I've met the guy who has had (and continues to have) a lot of influence in writing the fish and game laws. He said they looked at the type of hunting where people get into the most trouble. The danger of brown bear hunting is obvious and people who don't have a clue about the unpredictability of the animals or how to properly care for them after killing one need to have someone show them. That goes for a lot of residents too, but nonresidents overestimate their own abilities and underestimate Alaska weather, terrain, and the game they are hunting at a higher rate. Requiring a guide cuts down on waste, SAR operations, and fatalities while hunting these higher risk animals. There is a logical reason behind the requirement.

  11. #11

    Default Why Indeed

    I have no problem paying the state the required fee for for a Brown Bear tag. But Why have to Pay a Guide 10,000 to 14,000 dollars. I can about guarantee most of these guide fees are not staying in the state.
    Sounds like you already know the answers; why then are you asking the questions?
    I can come up and Black Bear hunt and be in the same area as Brown Bears and NOT have to have a guide Or can Move up for a year and do whatever.
    Well, you've read and seem to understand the regs as written. That's a plus. And since it's a free country, you can indeed move to Alaska, wait a year, and forego the guide fee.
    It cannot be for safety because a resident that has no idea about hunting can take to the woods and land into all kinds of trouble that the seasoned hunter would not.
    An AK resident will at least be aware of some of the dangers presented by the Alaskan bush; they see on TV, or read in the papers, about people getting lost, or crashing in bush planes, or drowning, or getting mauled by a bear, on a much more regular basis than outsiders do. They should at least have a stronger situational awareness of what they might be getting into, than a non-resident.

    And having lived in Alaska for 12 years before moving outside, and having gone back to Alaska to hunt 5 out of the past 6 years, I can tell you that the deer hunting I do in Maryland every Fall in NO way prepares me for an Alaska wilderness hunt; a "seasoned" hunter from the lower 48 can very easily put themselves in a compromising position, simply by underestimating what they're getting into. Can you or I handle ourselves OK on a hunt that goes smoothly? Probably. But what happens when the weather keeps your pilot from getting you for DAYS after your scheduled pickup; or your tent gets blown over and crushed by the wind; or you start to experience hypothermia because you brought raingear that's OK for the lower 48, but not for the peninsula; or you run out of food/water before your pickup?

    Not to mention once you harvest a Brown bear why would you want to kill another one ?most I know don't They don't eat them.
    Some people do eat them, or know others who do; some believe in active predator control and bear management; some people like to hunt things that can hunt you back; some probably have reasons you and I can't think of.

  12. #12
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    Default My 2 cents...

    As a hunter from the lower 48 who loves and hunts your state I will give you my 2 cents. I will spend approx $5,000 or $6,000 in your State this year. I am float hunting 70-80 miles on a remote Alaska river for moose this September. I will also have a caribou tag, 2 wolf tags, 1 black bear tag and a non-resident license(s) and no guide. ($1500 or so) If I could buy a brown bear tag I would. I will be in Brown Bear country. I consider myself an ethical and dedicated hunter and I hit what I aim at (Shot placement) I know how to skin and care for a bear as I have a blackie from Alaska on my wall. So there I am this September, God gives me the priviledge of seeing a brownie in the wild, I judge him well and see he is a harvestable animal, I will take his picture because the law says I cannot harvest him because I am in the exact same position I am in, but didn't pay 10K for a guide to put me where I am anyway. Just my thoughts on the matter.

    God smiles on you guys for living my dream, and living in Alaska!

  13. #13

    Default Alaska rules for non-residents

    I absolutely agree with Mdhunter. When I got here in 1984, I, too was peeved that I had to wait a year to get a resident tag. I was born into a hunting family in the woods of Arkansas, have shot many deer, pigs, turkey, and small game in some pretty tough terrain. I thought I was Mr. Hunter extraoidinaire, but what I learned that first year by going hunting with and learning from long-time Alaskans can fill volumes. I am now thoroughly convinced that this guide requirement/second degree of kindred for mountain game and bears is rock solid for the majority of hunters that come here from other places. I do wish there was a way to take friends if you are a long-time Alaskan, though. I know, that would be abused to no end, but it sure would be easier for real Alaskans to take their friends from other places hunting griz/brown bear or mountain game.

    Alaska is not anything like hunting most of the lower 48, and is unforgiving. We don't have a lot of roads, mostly remote areas and a great lack of quick accessability to assistance if and when things go wrong. Having to wait that first year or spending a lot of time learning here is an important element in hunting Alaska.
    Now just why in the hell do I have to press "1" for English???

  14. #14
    Member Erik in AK's Avatar
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    Default

    All the above mentioned postulations on the politico-economics aside...the underlying rationale for the guide requirement for Grizzly/Brown Bears, Sheep, and Goats is that 1) bears are dangerous--even more so when shot, 2) sheep and goats live in dangerous country--I invite the unititiated to traverse a scree slide humping an 80 pound pack before arguing this point, and 3) additional restrictions on non-residents is the norm for virtually all hunting anywhere.

    There are lots of highly skilled wilderness hunters who, for reasons 1 and 2, would not otherwise NEED a guide however, nobody gets by #3.

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    Default mountain hunts

    I think i understand the guide requirement a little better with the mountain hunts (sheep and goats) based on the terrain and type of hunt involved. I am far from an expert on brown bear hunting (only been on one) but i don't think the hunt itself is all that much different from other hunts non residents can do in alaska without a guide.

  16. #16
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    huntings pretty much the same for any animal, but knowing the difference in a bear from a boar to a sow and knowing what to look for for how a sow with cubs acts, when you can't actually see the cubs. alot of sows fish without their cubs, they leave them up on the bank or in the brush, what to do once the gun goes off if things go bad, shot placement, posturing, behavior, every bear is extremely differnt the more you look at and watch the more you'll start to understand them. being that they are the dominant predator they'll behave much different than a prey animal, like moose or sheep. When someone thinks they are on top of the food chain and your trying to convice them otherwise...sometimes it gets weird.
    Someone who just flys up and heads out to blow a bear away is going to do just that....problem is a seven footer likes like a nine footer and a boar looks like a sow and some cubs look like good bears and so on. pictures are great..but nothing makes up for field time. hence a guide.
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  17. #17

    Talking resident?

    What about the scenario of a inexperienced resident of Alaska that can take out his or her non-resident blood kin on a brown bear hunt "for free?" Where's the guiding requirement here? The assumption that just because you're an Alaska resident makes one some kind of Dave Crockett and that a non-resident is some kind of a helpless slob. I say hogwash. I know there are some non-resident hunters that just as capable to hunt Alaska as most residents are. But one post said that if it wasn't a requirement, non-residents would be backed up and game populations would suffer...to that, I agree.
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  18. #18

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    And having lived in Alaska for 12 years before moving outside, and having gone back to Alaska to hunt 5 out of the past 6 years, I can tell you that the deer hunting I do in Maryland every Fall in NO way prepares me for an Alaska wilderness hunt; a "seasoned" hunter from the lower 48 can very easily put themselves in a compromising position, simply by underestimating what they're getting into. Can you or I handle ourselves OK on a hunt that goes smoothly? Probably. But what happens when the weather keeps your pilot from getting you for DAYS after your scheduled pickup; or your tent gets blown over and crushed by the wind; or you start to experience hypothermia because you brought raingear that's OK for the lower 48, but not for the peninsula; or you run out of food/water before your pickup?


    I lived in Kodiak and Dutch for a year and can totally agree with the harsh weather conditions you see in Alaska and people being unprepared. However, deer hunting in Maryland in the "lower 48" certainly does not compared with deer hunting in Northern Maine which is also in the "lower 48".

    I have finally saved enough to take my wife on a hunt/fishing trip in AK next year (her first time there), it is not a brown bear hunt, which I could never afford but we will have a great trip no matter what we do up there.

  19. #19
    Member COtoAK's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bustedknee View Post
    When the guides write the laws, they write them so they will make some money.
    Really? Is this why my husband makes practically nothing so that he could bring some guy out on a hike that almost can't endure the terrain because he's not healthy or fit enough to do so... just so that my husband could judge the ram and let the hunter make the shot to take home the trophy ram?

    No, he does it because he loves the sport and it's a challenge to him to find the best of the best for his client. He also gets paid INCREDIBLY LITTLE for what he has had to endure on these hunts, much less has to take on the wrath of his beloved wife (me) for non-communication, unnecessary wounds, risky climbs, to turn around and do it again year after year?

    I support my husband in this sort of leisure, but let me tell you, it definitely doesn't pay for our bills.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawken54 View Post
    I absolutely agree with Mdhunter. When I got here in 1984, I, too was peeved that I had to wait a year to get a resident tag. I was born into a hunting family in the woods of Arkansas, have shot many deer, pigs, turkey, and small game in some pretty tough terrain. I thought I was Mr. Hunter extraoidinaire, but what I learned that first year by going hunting with and learning from long-time Alaskans can fill volumes. I am now thoroughly convinced that this guide requirement/second degree of kindred for mountain game and bears is rock solid for the majority of hunters that come here from other places. I do wish there was a way to take friends if you are a long-time Alaskan, though. I know, that would be abused to no end, but it sure would be easier for real Alaskans to take their friends from other places hunting griz/brown bear or mountain game.

    Alaska is not anything like hunting most of the lower 48, and is unforgiving. We don't have a lot of roads, mostly remote areas and a great lack of quick accessability to assistance if and when things go wrong. Having to wait that first year or spending a lot of time learning here is an important element in hunting Alaska.
    I think that you made some very good points in your post.
    Alaskan terrain is definitely unforgiving regardless if you have spent hours over topo maps. I have realized that making this last trip back to Colorado because doing a summit in CO is far easier than doing a summit in AK. Reading is one thing and experiencing is another.

    I'll agree with you both. I have still yet to receive my resident status and I would still have to pay non-resident fees to hunt, fish, or even take college courses. I can't even partake in the dividend quite yet. In the long run, I'll obtain those statuses, but it's been a struggle. Although it angers me, it's worth it for me to wait to become legal and to be able to do all that's possible for me in this lovely, enriching state.
    Lurker.

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