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Thread: 23 Vanguard; naturally rough-running?

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    Default 23 Vanguard; naturally rough-running?

    i am just wondering how smooth or rough a 23 vanguard normally runs. mine is nowhere near a standard outboard in smoothness. it rather shakes and vibrates what i think is too much. i am working on tuning it to see if that helps; it also does not seem to have the "snap" i expect when i rev it up. it seem sluggish. i just adjusted the valve lash and tweaked the air needle on the carb, and those seemed to help a tad. but, it's still not a smooth running machine. is "rough" just the nature of these? i had a one-lung ossa dirt bike that was far smoother than my vanguard. just wondering what i should expect. thanks. john

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    just a question or 2 is the motor new or used? have you check the compression ? on a hot eng ? what is it on ? 1 or 2 piston I know nothing
    about the eng. but just some basic's SID

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    sid: fairly new mud buddy. i have not looked for my comp tester yet, or timing light. i am just wondering if it is worth fussing with. if the 23 vanguards just run kind of rough, then so be it. if not, then i need to dig in. my older one, as i recall, was a bit smoother, but never a yamaha. thanks for the suggestions.

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    I don't know..I knew a guy with a 23 and looked it over but never saw it running. He raved about it and that was the final push I needed to buy a surface drive. I do know that the 14HP on my Copperhead is a kohler and runs very smooth. Lonnie from Far North Bush Craft and Survival I think has a 23 Copperhead on his canoe and it seems to run pretty smooth on his last video.

    Go to the 1 minute mark

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz1vwTPYa2M&t=41s

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    sounds smoother than mine. nice canoe, too; wider stern that the scott. what make?

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    Basically a lawn mower. Mine is sure not as smooth as my old jet, or a dirtbike. They can be tuned quite a bit, at a hefty cost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jklingel View Post
    sounds smoother than mine. nice canoe, too; wider stern that the scott. what make?
    That is the one made by Mike Manzo . No keels and has UHMW plastic armor on the bottom. Pretty much perfect except a bit pricey!

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    "Pretty much perfect except a bit pricey!" especially if one never appears..... cheers. john

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    Quote Originally Posted by Don_h View Post
    Basically a lawn mower. Mine is sure not as smooth as my old jet, or a dirtbike. They can be tuned quite a bit, at a hefty cost.
    thanks. does yours vibrate quite a bit? mine shakes more than i like. comparing it to a yamaha is like comparing a garden hose to a fire hydrant. i had rod's saw tune my other one, and it was not that bad. i have time to dink with this one, so i guess i'll just have to go through all the aspects and see WTH happens. if it is still nasty, i'll take it to rod's next spring. j

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    Mine shakes quite a bit at low rpms but once moving it's not bad. Sounds like you've had experience with these before, so if that is the case, something is probably wrong. My comment was more of a if you haven't had one it's normal thing. They are relatively reliable little motors, but have their inherent issues.

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    don: thanks again. mine is the opposite; vibs like hell at higher rpm. yes, i now think i need to work on it for sure.

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    Before digging in to the engine. Make sure the oil is not overfilled. If it is drain accordingly and then check the air filter, which may be oil soaked due to the excess oil. Test it by running without the air filter to see if it vibrates still. If he oil and air filter were fine the I'd get a can of sea foam and drizzle I in a you run it

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    Could the vibration be coming from other rotating parts? Is the prop balanced or damaged?
    "I refuse to let the things I can't do stop me from doing the things I can"

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    Ducky: thanks. oil level is fine, as is filter. i was a tad overfull, and when i changed oil and leveled it, it seemed to be a tad better. i've run it w/out the filter; no difference. i will check into sea foam; thanks for all the suggestions.

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    Stid: Thanks for the suggestion. I have a clutch, so I can run w/out the prop spinning. That is a sure a source of vibration on boat motors, though.

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    Here is a link for carb adjustment, I would pull the plugs and have a look, this should tell you a lot. I have the same engine on my mower and it has been bullet proof. Maybe dump all fuel and run it on a known fresh, water free can.

    https://www.vanguardengines.com/na/e...arburetor.html

    A quick google search, mostly referred to vibration caused by damaged props or trim tab causing cavitation.
    "I refuse to let the things I can't do stop me from doing the things I can"

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    Thanks again, and for the link. Plugs are pretty clean; one a tad sooty, the other brown. will check the carb before long. then timing. cheers. john

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    Quote Originally Posted by jklingel View Post
    Thanks again, and for the link. Plugs are pretty clean; one a tad sooty, the other brown. will check the carb before long. then timing. cheers. john
    They should be the same,, check the sooty one's plug wire. A bad plug wire will cause your issue. A plug wire shorting out should be worse on wet rainy days,, also run it during the dark, spark can sometimes be seen jumping in darkness. You can also hand search it with it running,, won't take long to find the short that way.
    "I refuse to let the things I can't do stop me from doing the things I can"

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    If you have happend to hit something,, it may have a partially sheared flywheel key. I have seen an engine still run, but run poorly if the shear key it partily sheared throwing off the timing.
    "I refuse to let the things I can't do stop me from doing the things I can"

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    roger that, but negative on hand searching for shorts. i got hit w/ a GM 80,000V HEI once, and that kind of put a damper on my grabbing plug wires. too, i watched a fat guy dump his dirt-track bike on himself, pinning him down, and the throttle stuck at WOT. he never put a kill switch on the bike, so he sat there, with the engine screaming in his crotch, trying to pull a plug wire. it was both funny and painful to watch him. in fact, it still hurts to recall it.

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