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Thread: 23 Vanguard; naturally rough-running?

  1. #21
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    flywheel shear key? never heard of that, but will surely check it out. hit something? carp, i hit rocks all the time, and some give me nausea.

  2. #22
    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jklingel View Post
    roger that, but negative on hand searching for shorts. i got hit w/ a GM 80,000V HEI once, and that kind of put a damper on my grabbing plug wires. too, i watched a fat guy dump his dirt-track bike on himself, pinning him down, and the throttle stuck at WOT. he never put a kill switch on the bike, so he sat there, with the engine screaming in his crotch, trying to pull a plug wire. it was both funny and painful to watch him. in fact, it still hurts to recall it.
    Yea,, figured you were old and smart enough to know better. But I have had more than one mystery engine issue go away with new plug wires.

    Good Luck
    "I refuse to let the things I can't do stop me from doing the things I can"

  3. #23
    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    Most of the engines like that have a heavy flywheel with magnets that both generate electricity and provide weight to help complete a combustion cycle. There is a soft key that keeps the flywheel in time with the crank. The key allows it to shear and not twist the crank it there is a sudden stoppage.

    https://www.briggsandstratton.com/na...wheel-key.html
    "I refuse to let the things I can't do stop me from doing the things I can"

  4. #24

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    As North61 said, I own the 23 horse Vanguard on a Copperhead motor. I am definitely NOT a mechanic but I think that the 23 does run rougher then Most two cylinder engines I have been familiar with. Once the throttle is opened up, it does seem to run smoother. Sorry I can't help you anymore than that. On this moose hunting trip of the video at the link North61 posted above, the 23 horse got to running so bad that I thought that we might have to walk back. I figured out later after hearing another fella speak of his Vanguard that what I was experiencing had been carb icing. I should have figured that out at the time but like I said, I'm no mechanic. Good luck on your engine John. Hope you figure it out.

  5. #25
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    A lot of times for us hunters, the industrial engines run too cold in the fall up here. This is the case across the board.

    The reason why North61's kohler motor runs so smooth in the late fall, is his air intake has a "snow flake setting". He can adjust his intake to take warm air in the fall on the "snowflake setting". I think I might have put his intake on that setting before he took the motor back to the Yukon, years ago.

    One fall hunt, I noticed my 12 lct was running rough on the Yukon, pulled the air filter and it was a block of ice, causing the air-fuel mixture to be too rich. I did the rest of the trip with the air filter off, sucking in snow the rest of the way. These industrial engines run at such a low compression, they can do this.

    The only difference between a honda snowblower engine and the regular motor, is metal shrouding around the carb to take in hot air and restricted ports around the recoil housing where the cooling fins grab air.

    Lot of guys who've run the vanguard in Alaska, will modify their intakes to pull air from near the exhaust pipes or the warm air coming off the motor, this helps immensely. No matter what, get rid of that pre-filter foam and paper filter cartridge and swap to a K&N oiled filter. They breath better in the cold.

    Other rough running issues I've seen occasionally with 18hp and 23hp vanguards, is bent or damaged governor springs. Those pesky things and the locations they mount to, can cause alot of headache.

    Geeze moutain Joe,

    I bet you were sore after packing that big moose back to the freighter.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    A lot of times for us hunters, the industrial engines run too cold in the fall up here. This is the case across the board..........

    Geeze moutain Joe,

    I bet you were sore after packing that big moose back to the freighter.
    It was only about 100 feet to the boat but I would have not wanted it to be any further than that lol. I need a young fella with a strong back to go with me next time. )

    Yeah I talked to a fella who stopped to admire the moose rack at one of our stops on our hunt return trip. He had a larger mud motor and he had carb icing until he designed a exhaust system heated de-icer shroud. I will have to figure out something similar this winter. I designed a very simple carb de-icer system for my 582 Rotax run ultralight aircraft years ago that took warm air coming off the backside of the radiator and run that onto the exterior of the twin carbs. So simple but effective. Hopefully this will not be so difficult either.

  7. #27
    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountain joe View Post
    It was only about 100 feet to the boat but I would have not wanted it to be any further than that lol. I need a young fella with a strong back to go with me next time. )

    Yeah I talked to a fella who stopped to admire the moose rack at one of our stops on our hunt return trip. He had a larger mud motor and he had carb icing until he designed a exhaust system heated de-icer shroud. I will have to figure out something similar this winter. I designed a very simple carb de-icer system for my 582 Rotax run ultralight aircraft years ago that took warm air coming off the backside of the radiator and run that onto the exterior of the twin carbs. So simple but effective. Hopefully this will not be so difficult either.
    Keep in mind,, just like when you pull carb heat on an aircraft, you will have less power sucking in warm air. Would be nice if it could be ducted for warm weather ops, so you would not have to run hot all the time.
    "I refuse to let the things I can't do stop me from doing the things I can"

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by stid2677 View Post
    Keep in mind,, just like when you pull carb heat on an aircraft, you will have less power sucking in warm air. Would be nice if it could be ducted for warm weather ops, so you would not have to run hot all the time.
    If I can do so, I am picturing running a pipe from an exhaust shroud to the lid of the air intake box. During warm weather trips, I should hopefully be able to remove the pipe and cap the hole into the air intake box.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountain joe View Post
    It was only about 100 feet to the boat but I would have not wanted it to be any further than that lol. I need a young fella with a strong back to go with me next time. )
    Lonnie..if you can afford to feed him I'll ship you my son as an apprentice for a year or two. He is a good boy but let's just say you will need to get more moose to survive the winter. Also a few milk cows might help as he seems to put away a few quarts a day.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by North61 View Post
    Lonnie..if you can afford to feed him I'll ship you my son as an apprentice for a year or two. He is a good boy but let's just say you will need to get more moose to survive the winter. Also a few milk cows might help as he seems to put away a few quarts a day.

    Lol You've got a deal. Welcome to your new home Sonny. Ps Please bring your own hammer, saw, snow shovel and lawn mower with you when you come. Am looking forward to having you. :O)

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