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Thread: Bear Spray Fail. Again.

  1. #1
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    Default Bear Spray Fail. Again.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/grizzly-b...222750802.html

    Still feel better with a .30cal rifle instead of the hot sauce...

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    It didn't fail in my opinion.. the gun could have provoked even a worse response.. either way he's lucky to be alive.. under those circumstances it's hard to tell. 30 feet from a feeding Griz is obviously too close and happened very quick..


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    Nope. Didn't fail. Did about what I would expect it to do. Not much.
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    LOL at the comments section from anti's, Bears are winning! Yeah i'll stick with gunpowder and lead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by h20fowler View Post
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/grizzly-b...222750802.html

    Still feel better with a .30cal rifle instead of the hot sauce...
    OK, you did read the article, right? Bear spray fail? If anything, the bear spray is what stopped the attack (as per the article), as the one fellow was not able to use his firearm, because the bear swatted it away.
    What this article does illustrate very well is that regardless of what makes you feel safe in bear country, bear attacks happen so quickly that not matter what you are trying to use to counter, it's a crap shoot whether you can actually use it. Bear sprays have an advantage in these sorts of situations because you don't have to get a straight shot in. Nothing is for sure in a bear attack. A firearm isn't going to guarantee safety, neither is a bear spray.
    The best defence is a good offence. Make lots of noise and let the bear s know you are there. Of course, this isn't what we do when we are hunting, the opposite in fact. My buddy and I almost walked onto a griz feeding on roots in heavy mist 2 years ago, and it was only blind luck that we walked out of that one, and we both had rifles out and loaded, as we were coming in on a Moose. We were close enough that there was no way either of us would have gotten any sort of shot off if Griz had seen us first. We all should be cognizant of the risks we face out there, and do our best to minimize them.
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  6. #6

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    I am happy to hear the involved hunters are going to be ok. I think the effectiveness of bear spray will be debated long after I am gone.

    Just as the effectiveness of a hand gun caliber is debated and the hand gun plat form.

    I trust my 5 shot 30-06 and 4 shot .338 Winny with the Barnes X bullets, I trust my 7 shot Marlin 45-70 with the 400 grain Kodiak bullets, I trust my 6 shot 12 ga. with the deep penetrating 602 grain Brenneke Black Magic slugs. I even trust my wife's little "berry picking" gun, a 10 shot Mod. 94 Win. in .44 mag. shooting 280 grain LBT hard cast.

    I don't have near as much faith in my .44 mag. hand gun shooting the same 280 grain slug. My 2 big cans of bear spray are better then nothing. Heck my knife is better then nothing.

    Lord Jesus, please guide my aim, calm my innards and get me safely through any life threatening bear encounter I have in my furture. I know I will need to be at my best when it happens and I know I will need your help.

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    Fail? So much is missing from the story. Where did the spray hit the bear? Face? Mouth? Eyes? From what range? The gun certainly didn't help at all. Then the attack stopped when the partner deployed the rest of the spray.
    I have not sprayed a grizzly but I have sprayed three black bears. Results were spectacular.

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    Maybe the gun would of helped had he grabbed that first instead of the seasoning

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    All I can think about is that not only does he have horrible wounds from the bear...but now those and all other holes into his body are now filled with bear spray.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yukoner View Post
    OK, you did read the article, right? Bear spray fail? If anything, the bear spray is what stopped the attack (as per the article), as the one fellow was not able to use his firearm, because the bear swatted it away.
    What this article does illustrate very well is that regardless of what makes you feel safe in bear country, bear attacks happen so quickly that not matter what you are trying to use to counter, it's a crap shoot whether you can actually use it. Bear sprays have an advantage in these sorts of situations because you don't have to get a straight shot in. Nothing is for sure in a bear attack. A firearm isn't going to guarantee safety, neither is a bear spray.
    The best defence is a good offence. Make lots of noise and let the bear s know you are there. Of course, this isn't what we do when we are hunting, the opposite in fact. My buddy and I almost walked onto a griz feeding on roots in heavy mist 2 years ago, and it was only blind luck that we walked out of that one, and we both had rifles out and loaded, as we were coming in on a Moose. We were close enough that there was no way either of us would have gotten any sort of shot off if Griz had seen us first. We all should be cognizant of the risks we face out there, and do our best to minimize them.
    "Bear sprays have an advantage in these sorts of situations???" Don't think so. Some can "deploy" their shotgun a lot quicker. There is wind and thick brush to think about that minimizes the effect of spray. There is the cumbersome grab the can and press the trigger issue (I assume you don't walk the woods with your finger on the trigger of a can of spray!).

    I agree "prevention" in the form of awareness and avoidance of "bearish" looking places when possible is the way to go. But, as you said, spot and stalk hunting requires silence in the woods, which of course, increases the probability of a chance encounter with a bear. Maybe you need to go to a skeet field and practice some low gun low eights with your Mossberg Shockwave.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    Nope. Didn't fail. Did about what I would expect it to do. Not much.

    In the words of the GOVERNATOR.....EXACTAMUNDO Mr. Brownbear....Bear "protection" spray is 1000% effective PROTECTING BEARS....humans not so much......as the eco-fanatic "bear spray" proponents would say: a mutilated, blinded-crippled, dismembered human is a lot better than an "injury" to a bear...

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    Anyone using a shockwave or tac14 12 gauge for bear defense? Not very accurate at more than 20-30 feet but with slugs they pack a heavy punch at short range in a compact handy package.

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    Quote Originally Posted by standswittaknife View Post
    It didn't fail in my opinion.. the gun could have provoked even a worse response.. either way he's lucky to be alive.. under those circumstances it's hard to tell. 30 feet from a feeding Griz is obviously too close and happened very quick..


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    Huh???? "The gun could have provoked even a worse response?
    Are you saying a gun used in the defense of one's life would have really pissed the bear off, consequently, it is best to allow yourself to be mauled???? Interesting logic......

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    [QUOTE=AlaskaENGR1;1609438]Anyone using a shockwave or tac14 12 gauge for bear defense? Not very accurate at more than 20-30 feet but with slugs they pack a heavy punch at short range in a compact handy package.[/QUOTE

    I bet semi-serious money I can "deploy" my Shockwave a lot faster than someone can "deploy" a can of gas....take the hint: practice low gun low eight a LOT. You can set up your own course...most commercial places won't allow you to do it....(BTW make sure you put a strap on the Remington if you try it).....

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    Quote Originally Posted by standswittaknife View Post
    It didn't fail in my opinion.. the gun could have provoked even a worse response.. either way he's lucky to be alive.. under those circumstances it's hard to tell. 30 feet from a feeding Griz is obviously too close and happened very quick..


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    Huh???? "The gun could have provoked even a worse response?
    Are you saying a gun used in the defense of one's life would have really pissed the bear off, consequently, it is best to allow yourself to be mauled???? Interesting logic......

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    [QUOTE=Bill S.;1609325]Fail? So much is missing from the story. Where did the spray hit the bear? Face? Mouth? Eyes? From what range? The gun certainly didn't help at all. Then the attack stopped when the partner deployed the rest of the spray.
    I have not sprayed a grizzly but I have sprayed three black bears. Results were spectacular.[/QUOTE


    The "gun did not help at all" because the "operator" of the gun flubbed. If, he had a Glock 20 in a good cross draw or chest holster and OPENED UP on the bear as it charged them, or, better yet, a buckshot facial from a Mossberg Shockwave, the results would have been different. Don't blame the gun's lack of effectiveness for the guy's INABILITY to put it to good use. You may consider the proposition that if the guy's FIRST instinct was to go for the GLOCK 20/Shockwave instead of a can of gas, his buddy may have kept his scalp in better shape.

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    Cold foot.. I agree with everything you have said. My logic applies to me.. it's just not feasible to bring some of these larger caliber guns on backpack high mountain hunts and I really suck with a pistol. So if it was me, my inability to shoot a charging grizzly at full speed is iffy at best.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldfoot View Post
    Huh???? "The gun could have provoked even a worse response?
    Are you saying a gun used in the defense of one's life would have really pissed the bear off, consequently, it is best to allow yourself to be mauled???? Interesting logic......
    Please think critically here. Thats not what he's saying at all. You are implying it. Maybe you have all sorts of experience in defending yourself in bear attacks, most of us, thankfully, don't. Unless you immediately kill the bear with a well placed shot taken insuring an incredibly chaotic situation, you are going to have a wounded bear to deal with. If it's a sow with Cubs, it's going to keep trying to protect the Cubs.
    This is not about "allowing" yourself to be mauled. Come on, please be realistic here. If you don't feel comfortable relying on bear spray, that's fine, I carry a pistol grip 12 ga. when weight isn't an issue. I also carry bear spray because it has also proven effective.
    Obviously, if you have a firearm either in your hands or immediately available, one is going to use it. To do otherwise would be ludicrous. Likewise, if your rifle is slung on your shoulder or strapped to your pack, reaching for a bear spray would be the better solution.
    There is no guarantee either will work. Bear attack stats are full of people who have been hurt or killed regardless of what they were carrying. Either will have an advantage in certain situations.
    Never wrestle with a pig.
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    Quote Originally Posted by standswittaknife View Post
    Cold foot.. I agree with everything you have said. My logic applies to me.. it's just not feasible to bring some of these larger caliber guns on backpack high mountain hunts and I really suck with a pistol. So if it was me, my inability to shoot a charging grizzly at full speed is iffy at best.


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    I admire your HONESTY! Yes, indeed. Most guys I hunt/have hunted with who carry firearms in bear country have LIMITED skills in drawing, aiming and hitting a target. Hence, we have the proponents of "gas bear protection." But, the point I want to make is that the issue is not that GUNS are ineffective, the issue is that PEOPLE with limited gun skills are ineffective. I see it as a SKILLS and not a GUN issue.

    And, yes, I agree, the average outdoors person has limited GUN skills and gas is just a bit better than nothing. As you probably know, gas is effective in certain situations e.g., placid/timid/curious bear in calm days, etc. But, as you may or may not know, bears have TEMPERAMENTS (personality?) and a bad-ass (my phrase) bear or a predatory bear will use your gas to groom it's hair....(just kidding) while it rearranges your face/head....

    I try to plan for the bad-ass/predatory bear that won't be dissuaded by gas hence, I am a proponent of practicing, practicing, practicing with an appropriate transportable firearm because in the rare yet possible event you run into a bad-ass/predatory bear, your gas affords you NO protection while a SKILLED gun person has a small chance. (And, I KNOW a bear charge does not happen fast or even, VERY FAST...it happens at HYPERSONIC speed!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yukoner View Post
    Please think critically here. Thats not what he's saying at all. You are implying it. Maybe you have all sorts of experience in defending yourself in bear attacks, most of us, thankfully, don't. Unless you immediately kill the bear with a well placed shot taken insuring an incredibly chaotic situation, you are going to have a wounded bear to deal with. If it's a sow with Cubs, it's going to keep trying to protect the Cubs.
    This is not about "allowing" yourself to be mauled. Come on, please be realistic here. If you don't feel comfortable relying on bear spray, that's fine, I carry a pistol grip 12 ga. when weight isn't an issue. I also carry bear spray because it has also proven effective.
    Obviously, if you have a firearm either in your hands or immediately available, one is going to use it. To do otherwise would be ludicrous. Likewise, if your rifle is slung on your shoulder or strapped to your pack, reaching for a bear spray would be the better solution.
    There is no guarantee either will work. Bear attack stats are full of people who have been hurt or killed regardless of what they were carrying. Either will have an advantage in certain situations.

    Critical thinking cap is on!:

    1. "unless you immediately kill the bear..." Not really. Many bears can and have been "turned" from a charge by the noise/effect of a warning shot.
    2. Not all bears aggressively follow up their charge. There is a continuum of behaviors in "bluff charges."
    3. Only people who are betting on not encountering "predatory" or temperamentally-hyper-aggressive bears rely on "gas."
    4. Bear spray has NEVER/SELDOM proven effective with PREDATORY bear attacks.
    5. "likewise, if your rifle is slung on your shoulder or strapped to your pack, reaching for a bear spray would be the better solution..." Don't think so. Some can draw a Glock 20 a lot faster you can reach for your can of spray and press the trigger.
    6. No question. A CLOSE encounter (inside 20 yards) with an aggressive/predatory bear will get you mauled. No matter what!

    I think there is a modicum of common sense and a bit of eco-nihilism involved when hyping the "protective" characteristics of "bear protection" spray. The reality is that "bear protection" spray ultimately PROTECTS BEARS and, in some instances (less aggressive, non-predatory attacks) in calm days (no heavy rain, no strong wind, no heavy brush) people. But, I take issue with the eco-nihilist narrative depicting "bear protection spray" as the ultimate method of defense against aggressive bears. (Eco-nihilist: Urban-suburban creatures who subconsciously believe the life of a bear is intrinsically more valuable than the life of a human.)

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