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Thread: Bear Spray Fail. Again.

  1. #41

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    I have never used bear spray on a bear, but I suspect results are not always the same depending on the situation. I saw a gizmo where the bear spray attached to a back pack and when one is on their stomach and the bear is biting at their head, the idea was the spray would deploy when the bear bit it. Talk about a last line of defense!

    I have used bear spray on several occasions on humans that were jacked up emotionally and high on booze and other legal and illegal substances. Some times it did not have the best results, depending on the volume delivered and the range. I came to the conclusion that a whole bunch of spray delivered on target at close range worked best.

    I am also of the opinion that using non lethal force on any thing that is trying to use possible lethal force on me is my last response. I firmly believe in an appropriate and over whelming response. For me that means lots of heavy slugs in the right place. All I can do is try to deliver that response.

    Long ago I was a certified "pepper spray" instructor. Does that make me an expert on the subject?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RTaylor View Post
    That was an opinion? I thought it was your idea of a joke.

    From what I can see you are the reason they came up with the saying beam me up Scotty no intelegence here. Here on the forum is where people give their opinions on any given subjects they do not expect to be referred to as a moron even if their opinion does not fit within other people's opinion

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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter1951 View Post
    From what I can see you are the reason they came up with the saying beam me up Scotty no intelegence here. Here on the forum is where people give their opinions on any given subjects they do not expect to be referred to as a moron even if their opinion does not fit within other people's opinion
    Personally, because of the different font and all, I kind just thought you had cut and pasted those couple paragraphs from some article in response to Chez's question...???

    But believe it of not, they don't call some of those 45/70s "Guide Guns" for nothin'. Oh, and they also have been used successfully on Africa's Big 5, so that should tell you somethin'.....

    Just sayin'......
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post
    Personally, because of the different font and all, I kind just thought you had cut and pasted those couple paragraphs from some article in response to Chez's question...???......
    My thoughts exactly. And I figured that he did it as a joke.

    If there is one thing that the internet has done for me, it has been to expand on the fact that there is no limit to the thought processes of the human mind.

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    I am a member of the Mountaineering Club of Alaska and we get monthly publications with mountain adventure stories. In one of the articles a couple of guys were hiking near Hope above the tree line. The writer wanted to climb over a ridge and his buddy wanted to go around. They decided to split up and meet on the other side. While making his way over the ridge the author said he heard snapping sounds. He looked down to see a sow at full speed with two large cubs behind her. the sow got in range first and he fired his xl can of bear spray at her. She switched ends and ran away until the cubs got closer to him. She turned and charged him again. She arrived before the cubs and he sprayed her in the face with a continuous spray at close range. He had to back up as the sow continued to advance, roar, and swip at him. He was almost out of spray when the cubs joined their mother and got sprayed. This caused the cubs to retreat. The sow retreated just as he ran out of spray. The author was thankful he had the extra large can. The bottom line is everything has the potential of being effective against bears. Apparently bears can take a lot of pain from bear spray undeterred in the right circumstances. Bears can also take multiple rounds from high powered rifles and still kill. If they can take the shock of a high powered rifle they can take the shock of your favorite bear sidearm. The most effective tool against bears is between your ears. Pick what ever you are most comfortable with for when avoidance is not possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcnejs View Post
    I am a member of the Mountaineering Club of Alaska and we get monthly publications with mountain adventure stories. In one of the articles a couple of guys were hiking near Hope above the tree line. The writer wanted to climb over a ridge and his buddy wanted to go around. They decided to split up and meet on the other side. While making his way over the ridge the author said he heard snapping sounds. He looked down to see a sow at full speed with two large cubs behind her. the sow got in range first and he fired his xl can of bear spray at her. She switched ends and ran away until the cubs got closer to him. She turned and charged him again. She arrived before the cubs and he sprayed her in the face with a continuous spray at close range. He had to back up as the sow continued to advance, roar, and swip at him. He was almost out of spray when the cubs joined their mother and got sprayed. This caused the cubs to retreat. The sow retreated just as he ran out of spray. The author was thankful he had the extra large can. The bottom line is everything has the potential of being effective against bears. Apparently bears can take a lot of pain from bear spray undeterred in the right circumstances. Bears can also take multiple rounds from high powered rifles and still kill. If they can take the shock of a high powered rifle they can take the shock of your favorite bear sidearm. The most effective tool against bears is between your ears. Pick what ever you are most comfortable with for when avoidance is not possible.


    I think you need to re-read your post very carefully...."the sow continued to advance, roar and swipe at him..." Meaning, a determined/aggressive charge by an ADULT bear will not be stopped by "bear protection spray." The only thing that kept the guy from being mauled was the fact he was able to spray the CUBS. Meaning, the gas was ineffective with an ADULT bear and effective with CUBS.

    "Apparently bears can take a lot of pain from bear spray undeterred in the right circumstances..." Yup. Just ask the surviving woman who sprayed the predatory black bear that killed her partner this Spring...

    "If they can take the shock of a high powered rifle they can take the shock of your favorite bear sidearm..." Yup. No question...but envision this:
    You are walking back to your tent along the shore of a lake, wind is blowing hard and rain is heavy...you bump into an aggressive bear....you pull out your can of gas...you spray your own face...the bear EATS your face......

    "The most effective tool against bears is between your ears." No question. However, you may find yourself in the wrong place at the wrong time facing an aggressive bear.

    "Pick what ever you are most COMFORTABLE with for when avoidance is not possible." Disagree. This is NOT about comfort. This is about planning for the rare WORST CASE scenario (aggressive/predatory bear that won't be stopped by "protection spray"). This is about choosing a "deterrent" that won't be affected by brush, rain or WIND.

    Please, feel free to take those walks around windy shorelines with your can of spray but, I would not recommend it....me, I will rely on buckshot and slugs.....

  7. #47
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Maybe this is a viable alternative to bear spray?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldfoot View Post
    ..." Meaning, a determined/aggressive charge by an ADULT bear will not be stopped by "bear protection spray."....
    Well I guess my eyes were deceiving me then as I, in fact, saw bear spray do just that....

    No offense sir, but by reading your posts I realize you believe you are an authority on bears, but "imo" there is no way in hell you can make that claim with any degree of certainty. There is absolutely no way of knowing how a bear is going to react to anything.....other than a high powered slug to the central nervous system.
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
    Maybe this is a viable alternative to bear spray?

    Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk
    I've pissed in a brown bear's face before from a tree stand. It did not repel him at all. It very much "pissed" him
    off. He knew exactly what I'd done, and he wasn't happy about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RTaylor View Post
    I've pissed in a brown bear's face before from a tree stand. It did not repel him at all. It very much "pissed" him
    off. He knew exactly what I'd done, and he wasn't happy about it.

    Pics or it didn't happen

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    Quote Originally Posted by RTaylor View Post
    I've pissed in a brown bear's face before from a tree stand. It did not repel him at all. It very much "pissed" him
    off. He knew exactly what I'd done, and he wasn't happy about it.
    I would have liked to have seen that...!!!
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTaylor View Post
    I've pissed in a brown bear's face before from a tree stand. It did not repel him at all. It very much "pissed" him
    off. He knew exactly what I'd done, and he wasn't happy about it.
    That's good to know.lol
    Just saw that picture on facebook and it reminded me of this thread so figured it might liven up the discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RTaylor View Post
    I've pissed in a brown bear's face before from a tree stand. It did not repel him at all. It very much "pissed" him
    off. He knew exactly what I'd done, and he wasn't happy about it.
    DINGDINGDING, still laughing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryGarcia View Post
    Pics or it didn't happen
    Sorry. Both hands were busy at the time; one holding tightly to a branch, and the other holding........something else. And this was long before compact, water proof digital cameras.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RTaylor View Post
    I've pissed in a brown bear's face before from a tree stand. It did not repel him at all. It very much "pissed" him
    off. He knew exactly what I'd done, and he wasn't happy about it.


    Yeah...but...but...I bet the wind wasn't blowing...(Ha, ha!).....

    If it had been me up a tree and the bear was climbing, it would have been a load of #2...(Ha!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post
    Well I guess my eyes were deceiving me then as I, in fact, saw bear spray do just that....

    No offense sir, but by reading your posts I realize you believe you are an authority on bears, but "imo" there is no way in hell you can make that claim with any degree of certainty. There is absolutely no way of knowing how a bear is going to react to anything.....other than a high powered slug to the central nervous system.

    "I realize you believe you are an authority on bears..." Not really, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn one night.
    "There is absolutely no way of knowing how a bear is going to react to anything..." Yup. They are unpredictable. It is just a matter of probability.
    "other than a high powered slug to the central nervous system"....EXACTAMUNDO....What I have been saying all along!

    One can choose to shout and wave arms; use "bear protection spray"; climb a tree and unload #1 or, in my case, #2; whistle Dixie; dance the Macarena; play dead; do a backflip; sing to the bear, etc.....choose your reaction....me? I will continue to carry that cumbersome, heavy, inefficient shotgun with slugs/buckshot.....

  17. #57
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldfoot View Post
    "I realize you believe you are an authority on bears..." Not really, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn one night.
    "There is absolutely no way of knowing how a bear is going to react to anything..." Yup. They are unpredictable. It is just a matter of probability.
    "other than a high powered slug to the central nervous system"....EXACTAMUNDO....What I have been saying all along!

    One can choose to shout and wave arms; use "bear protection spray"; climb a tree and unload #1 or, in my case, #2; whistle Dixie; dance the Macarena; play dead; do a backflip; sing to the bear, etc.....choose your reaction....me? I will continue to carry that cumbersome, heavy, inefficient shotgun with slugs/buckshot.....
    If you don't mind my asking what exactly is the buckshot part of your equation supposed to do?
    Wouldn't a shotgun full of slugs only be a better choice?
    I mean given the ballistics of each the buckshot doesn't really seem to gain you much.
    I know people think that the buckshot has a shot pattern that may somehow account for being slightly off with your aim.
    But are those .330 balls really going to do much on a charging bear vs just using a big slug?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
    If you don't mind my asking what exactly is the buckshot part of your equation supposed to do?
    Wouldn't a shotgun full of slugs only be a better choice?
    I mean given the ballistics of each the buckshot doesn't really seem to gain you much.
    I know people think that the buckshot has a shot pattern that may somehow account for being slightly off with your aim.
    But are those .330 balls really going to do much on a charging bear vs just using a big slug?

    Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

    Agree 1000%. Buckshot is pretty iffy in terms of penetration. BUT, it is more likely one can miss with a slug than with buckshot in the haste/panic of the moment when shooting at very close range. A hit is a hit. A miss is a miss. It for sure won't kill the bear but, may buy you time for follow up slugs.

    I like to load buckshot-slugs. Some prefer two buckshot loads followed by all slugs. Some only load slugs. Some load buckshot-slugs-buckshot-slugs.
    If not using a shotgun, I am a big proponent of muzzle brakes in rifles. Often, a loud warning shot (NOT always) deters bears. Suppressors, although popular, are not for me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldfoot View Post
    ....a determined/aggressive charge by an ADULT bear will not be stopped by "bear protection spray." .....
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldfoot View Post
    ...Buckshot is pretty iffy in terms of penetration. BUT, it is more likely one can miss with a slug than with buckshot in the haste/panic of the moment when shooting at very close range. A hit is a hit. A miss is a miss. It for sure won't kill the bear......
    I gotta say, at least your consistent with that broad paint brush....I'll give ya that.

    Again, there is no way of knowing either one of these statements is 100% totally true. Again, aggressive bears can and do get stopped with bear spray....100% of the time?....No. But, and in the same way a person can easily miss with a slug, you put a .330 ball into the eye socket of a bear at close range it's probably gonna kill it. And there's a real good chance that if you hit one in the head at near point blank range with said buckshot it's probably gonna cave it's skull in....

    I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I wish you'd narrow down the swath of that brush.......
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post
    I gotta say, at least your consistent with that broad paint brush....I'll give ya that.

    Again, there is no way of knowing either one of these statements is 100% totally true. Again, aggressive bears can and do get stopped with bear spray....100% of the time?....No. But, and in the same way a person can easily miss with a slug, you put a .330 ball into the eye socket of a bear at close range it's probably gonna kill it. And there's a real good chance that if you hit one in the head at near point blank range with said buckshot it's probably gonna cave it's skull in....

    I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I wish you'd narrow down the swath of that brush.......
    "I gotta say, at least your consistent with that broad paint brush...I'll give ya that" Thanks for the compliment. My ex-wife thought I was an artist too!

    Let us discuss Probability Theory and/or the Null Hypothesis: Or, in plain language...I don't know of any ABSOLUTES in life. Life is about managing the probabilities. Heck, even DEATH is not a certainty to those who believe in Resurrection.
    By your admission, "Again, aggressive bears can and do get stopped with bear spray...100% of the time?...NO." (I think you said NO. Meaning, aggressive bears DO NOT get stopped with bear spray 100% of the time. Thanks for agreeing with me!)
    Then you said, "...you put a .330 ball into the eye socket of a bear at close range it's PROBABLY (NOT 100%) gonna kill it. Meaning, you said buckshot into the eye socket of a bear at close range is NOT 100% effective. (Again, thanks for agreeing with me.)

    Then you said, "...and there's a real good chance that if you hit one in the head at near point blank range with said buckshot it's PROBABLY (NOT 100%) gonna cave it's skull in.." Translation, even if one hits a bear at near point blank range with buckshot, it may not cave it's skull in. (Again, thanks for agreeing with me!)

    Here is the deal: If one were to do a statistical analysis of the probability of personal injury and/or death caused by an attack by an aggressive/predatory bear, I choose to take my chances with buckshot/slugs every day and twice on Sunday over "bear protection spray." You see, "bear protection spray" is 100% effective in protecting bears (don't know of any bears killed when sprayed, do you?) while people have been horribly disfigured, maimed,mutilated and killed when using it as the only means of defense.

    Hey, wait...there is an ABSOLUTE in life, after all: Bear protection spray absolutely protects bears from being killed! (Paint brush put away!)

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