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Thread: Do you speak up?

  1. #1
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Default Do you speak up?

    It used to be that when I saw somone committ a minor violation I didn't want confrontation and wouldn't say anything.
    Plus I figured it wouldn't do any good.
    Things like a snagged red salmon kept, shooting a spruce hen from the road, camping in a no camping area, etc.
    But I have gotten to the point that I'm tired of my favorite spots being closed or fisheries shut down etc. due in part to these kinds of things.
    On another thread someone posted they just moved back from two years in Europe and were going dipping.
    I qiestioned his residency status.
    To which he answered and all was good.
    But some forum members said it wasn't my business to question his residency.
    I'm assuming on the major violations we all would speak up or make a call if possible.
    But do you speak up on minor violations?
    What about situations where you suspicion a violation?
    Say they give you reason to question their residency or hint at over harvesting fish or game?
    Do you speak up and question the person? Or do you give them the benefit of the doubt and let it go?
    I feel asking a simple question to them isn't really intruding and so I'm inclined to ask.
    If they are legit they shouldn't mind answering and if they are offended I feel they are quite likely hiding something.
    Where do you stand on this?
    None of your business or ask the question?

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  2. #2

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    I used to speak up. But then one day, I spoke up and had a handgun pulled on me. No more speaking up from me any more, just not worth it. Nowadays, if it's a minor violation I just let it slide and move on. For a major violation I call up the LEO's when I'm away from the yahoo.

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    Member coho slayer's Avatar
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    For the record, I wasn't questioning your concern, just how you asked the question, which I tried to clarify.

  4. #4
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorcalBob View Post
    I used to speak up. But then one day, I spoke up and had a handgun pulled on me. No more speaking up from me any more, just not worth it. Nowadays, if it's a minor violation I just let it slide and move on. For a major violation I call up the LEO's when I'm away from the yahoo.
    That has concerned me before as well.
    Especially when it's shooting birds from the road.
    It is wise to watch out for a gun.


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  5. #5
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coho slayer View Post
    For the record, I wasn't questioning your concern, just how you asked the question, which I tried to clarify.
    Sure.
    But I was also curious as to how one leaves AK for 2 years and is still a resident here.
    If It was other than military service or college I was genuinely interested in how it is accomplished.
    An Inquiring mind wanted to know.
    Didn't realize it was actually possible.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

  6. #6
    Member coho slayer's Avatar
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    Fair enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorcalBob View Post
    I used to speak up. But then one day, I spoke up and had a handgun pulled on me. No more speaking up from me any more, just not worth it.........
    Yup. I would have killed him, then likely be facing prison. I'll remain quiet, get a license plate number, and call the troopers.

  8. #8
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I do on our little island. Normal response is no ones is going to say anything. Placing my hand where it needs to be I ask, did you just really say your were going to kill me. Then the stuttering starts.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    What I learned from trying to do the right thing aboutviolators. (Full disclosure; I am a retired federal wildlife biologist).

    Several years ago my wife and were fishing for early runreds at the Russian. The place was crammed with vehicles and RVís as it was around the 4th of July.

    We were parked next to a group of German tourists. Iím fairly gregarious and enjoy meeting people and have some German ancestry, so I struck up a conversation with their crew one evening after fishing and everyone was having drinks. We got off on the topic of resource and fishery management and it led to their sharing their views on regulations and management as we discussed several areas of their complaints. Long story short, their disdain for such complexity of concerns and restrictions informed me of their upbringing and culture. They believed such management was a fantasy doomed to failure based on their experience in Germany and most of Europe. Later in the week I began witnessing their practice of a simple scheme to steal fish and ship them back to the Fatherland to pay for their trips and provide spending money. They had been coming to Alaska for many years and I suspect practicing the philosophy that was in evidence when you paid some attention. Later in the week I discovered there were several RV-fullís (6-7) of these characters. You could hardly fish anywhere in the vicinity of the confluence and downstream without being next to a group of them. Easy to detect because they always spoke to each other in German.

    As the fishing week progressed I clearly witnessed their retaining snagged fish and over-limits. They transported fish back to their RVís and then would come back to the river and fish again. I watched as they transported all the fish out of the campground on the rotation schedule required by the stay-length allowance of the ferry area management. Taking their fish to a local processor (I later found out t the exact one), flash freezing and shipping them to Germany. Then coming back to the ferry campground. All these RVís coming and going on an almost daily basis because there was so many of them.

    After realizing the extent of the theft and scheme. I started videoing them with a good camera. Got good close-up pictures of fish and violators as well as their RVís and license tags with time stamped data. Aftera few days I had an SD card full of activities. I called ADF&G and they said they didnít have anyone who could come to speak with me. They said they would ask the State Troopers to pay me a visit. Several hours later a Trooper rolled into the campground. I sat in his car and explained what I had been seeing for about twenty minutes. I presented him with the SD card and informed him of the evidence it contained. I told him I would gladly file the complaint and be a witness at any trial. He seemed lukewarm to the situation, but did make one more pass through the parking lot to verify license plates I had given him in writing. He told me upon leaving they would be in touch. I kept no copies of the SD card (big mistake on my part). I never heard anything from them again and when I inquired a month or so later they didnít connect me with the original trooper and said they didnít know where the SD card was.

    We donít fish the Russian anymore for several reasons, but I canít help but believe the Germans have passed along their traditions to a younger and more vigorous group of thieves. And, I have lost a lot of confidence in enforcement as I continue to witness violations on a wide scale, and not just from foreigners. Just two days ago I called out two guys fishing reds in the College Hole area for keeping snagged pinks and being over their limit. Their excuse was the typical, "oh, theyíre just going to die from this wound anyway and itís alright, itís alright donít worry.Ē They said they could keep these extra pinks because they didnít count toward their three fish daily limit. Hell only knows what other perversions they were purveying to suit their other regulatory interpretations. They decided to leave after I began my inquiry. Itís my belief, all honest Alaskans should engage those they believe are committing infractions and try and determine if itís through ignorance or intentional. Try and be helpful to people, but donít let them go unchallenged. The resource canít protect itself and there is a lot of unfortunate human history of destruction by greed and entitlement of things we most cherish. Stand your ground for the resource and your principles. I'm sure you've heard of the concept of "death by a thousand cuts". It's often how we lose a lot completely when we aren't concerned by "the little things".
    Last edited by RaptorMan; 08-01-2017 at 10:41. Reason: run-on words lack of paragraph control by web site

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    I'm a strait up Duddly Do Right when it comes to game and fish laws, but at the same time, I mind my own **** business. If I see a no-doubt-about-it gross violation, such as poaching or wanton waist, then maybe. If I see a hunter hauling out what appears to be a sub-legal moose, I not only won't confront him or her, I don't even really care. The area I hunt has antler restrictions, however, there's several 'any bull tags' issued every season. Despite this fact, I have had *******s call the law, or worse, walk/ride over and start quizzing me. I hate that crap, and though my first instinct is to butt-stroke the Knuckle Buck for questioning my integrity, I haven't (so far). I chat them up a little, get their name, smile, and ask them to stop interfering with my hunt or I'm the one that's going to call the law.

  11. #11

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    I've seen born and bred Alaskans of all ages do similar poaching, and worse, than what Raptorman described for Germans. Without sufficient enforcement, the only action that is truely effective is a complete closure to all fishing in systems and seasons that need it due to stock declines. Pretty harsh, but that's reality

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    The regs for the kenai are so confusing I dont even try to fish it, even the LEO's dont know what the regs are on the entire river. Fishing the lakes in the area are almost as confusing with size limits, hook restrictions, day/month restrictions, etc...

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by RTaylor View Post
    I'll remain quiet, get a license plate number, and call the troopers.
    That's me to a T. Been known to take photos too. No point in me debating them. Let them debate the trooper if they want to discuss their "rights" to do something.
    "Lay in the weeds and wait, and when you get your chance to say something, say something good."
    Merle Haggard

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    My son and I walked between a some fellas and their bait they were using to photograph eagles one time in Yakutat. They rudely tried to shoo us away and I told them they were breaking the law. Told me I was a $&@"head. I said guess so and moved on. Wasn't worth the fight.

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    Member LindenTree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chez View Post
    The regs for the kenai are so confusing I dont even try to fish it, even the LEO's dont know what the regs are on the entire river. Fishing the lakes in the area are almost as confusing with size limits, hook restrictions, day/month restrictions, etc...
    I recently retired from the Kenai NWR and usually just called the LEO's, but I soon realized how thin they are stretched and quit calling anything in but gross violations, due to a lack of follow up.

    I also never fished the Kenai River, because I could not figure out the regulations.
    If I had a natural resource violation while working for the USFWS, I would have most likely lost my firefighting job.
    May the rivers be crooked and winding, and the portages lonesome, leading to the most "Amazing View".

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    Based upon what I have observed over my many years recreating in Alaska, it's a problem of gargantuan proportions. Reporting what one sees does absolutely nothing in most cases. I'm not saying one shouldn't report. Just don't get your hopes too high that the violators will ever be charged.
    Hunt Ethically. Respect the Environment.

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