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Thread: A few questions about my new 454 Casull SRH Alaskan

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak-fang View Post
    i haven't seen any crimp jump using the lee factory crimp die in the 4 die lee set using a 330gr gc-lfn over 27gr H110. when i was researching the subject a bit, i found others have said the redding profile crimp die consistently helps with crimp jumping. i would consider my crimp to be a medium crimp. i used to put a heavy one on there but have lightened up as i haven't found the heavy crimp to be necessary with my load.
    you mentioned the 45LC wouldn't cut the mustard out of the short barrel. granted i shoot the 5" but i was curious what you found about the 45LC you don't like?
    I like the 45 colt, but I was thinking standard ruger only loads out of the short Alaskan barrel. I am looking for a load that will get my 355 gr to 1100 fps. Didn't see that possible with 30 kpsi. Now with 50 kpsi that snyd mentioned, that could just work.

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    Member Doug in Alaska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    BUTTTT, the 454 JAMMED. I hear that a lot about the 454.

    Apparently, the Crimp is hard to get right, especially with a short barrel.

    454 is too much of a good thing, IMO.

    I'd druther have a 44 mag.

    SOTN

    I use a Redding Profile Crimp Die for both .454 and .480 Ruger and have never had a problem with crimp jump in either. 454 is a good thing, IMO.
    Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug in Alaska View Post
    I use a Redding Profile Crimp Die for both .454 and .480 Ruger and have never had a problem with crimp jump in either. 454 is a good thing, IMO.
    I think that I am going to order one of those.

    Also still would like to pursue the Lee Collet die for 454 Casull. As it turns out my 45 colt collet die isn't long enough for 454 and Lee doesn't list one specifically for the Casull case. They do have a S&W 460 collet die however and I am thinking that maybe it could be adjusted down to the shorter 454 case. Any opinions on that? I'll probably call them next week and see what they say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eagle55 View Post
    Good article, always like hearing about what has been done to these 19th century calibers.

    I wonder how much I would need to trim off my 454 brass before the collet would work?

    Also, would a shorter case, loaded to 50k be a better round in the extreme short barrel than the standard 454, perhaps a little less fire out the barrel without a performance penalty? I don't own a 45LC Blackhawk anymore so getting hot 45 colt ammo into the wrong gun wouldn't be a concern.

    So to be clear, are you shooting these 50 kpsi 45LC loads out of your redhawk 454 conversion?

    I checked the lee site and they don't list the collet crimp die for the 454. If they work as well as I have read about, the 454 would be a natural.
    454 is 1/10 of an inch longer than 45 Colt.

    Yes, I shoot 50k loads in my Redhawk. It's got a Ruger 454 Cylinder. 454 is rated to 60,000. Ruger/White laboratories proof tested the Carpenter Steel cylinder to 90,000 psi.

    Just load up some rounds with what you've got and go shoot em. You might be trying to solve a problem you don't have.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and donít have one, youíll probably never need one again

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    454 is 1/10 of an inch longer than 45 Colt.

    Yes, I shoot 50k loads in my Redhawk. It's got a Ruger 454 Cylinder. 454 is rated to 60,000. Ruger/White laboratories proof tested the Carpenter Steel cylinder to 90,000 psi.

    Just load up some rounds with what you've got and go shoot em. You might be trying to solve a problem you don't have.
    I have 50 of my warm 45kpsi 454 Casull handloads with 355gr WFNGC's in them that I could try, but I loaded them several years ago with just the standard roll crimp. Will be interesting if these survive crimp creep. That said I believe I do need to get a better crimp for loading up the Alaskan than what was suitable for my M-92 Rossi. I think I'll order the Redding Profile and go with that first as it comes with lots of good recommendations.

    It appears it is going to be a little bit before the snow melts out at the range, winter has a grip here this year.. Mother nature must be using a FCD!

    And you are right Snyd, I just need to get to shootin! The answers will come with that. Thanks everyone for your opinions and suggestions.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by eagle55 View Post
    I have 50 of my warm 45kpsi 454 Casull handloads with 355gr WFNGC's in them that I could try,
    what do you have sitting under that 355gr wfgnc? my bet is you won't have any problems with your crimp. curious how you know what pressures you're producing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug in Alaska View Post
    I use a Redding Profile Crimp Die for both .454 and .480 Ruger and have never had a problem with crimp jump in either. 454 is a good thing, IMO.
    A good die, I guess.

    SOTN
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak-fang View Post
    what do you have sitting under that 355gr wfgnc? my bet is you won't have any problems with your crimp. curious how you know what pressures you're producing.
    Here is the load I originally ran through Quickload. 25.5gr Lil'Gun, magnum primers (44.586psi). The first chart is for the 20" barrel on my Rossi levergun. QL estimated that one pretty close at 1693 fps and a 5 shot average on my chrony was 1724fps. The other chart is the same load through the Alaskan's 2.5". QL says 965 fps and I am hoping it is over 1000! Got to looking, this load is 100.6% full according to QL so no compression, but that could be off one way or the other.

    25.5 LilGun Rossi m92.jpg25.5 LilGun SRH Alaskan.jpg

    So just ordered a Redding Profile crimp die off Amazon.. Also the Hi Rez green front sight as well!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    Crimp jump can be an issue with heavy boolits light/heavy recoil guns. It could be an issue in 44 with some of the heavy loads/boolits guys run these days.

    My heavy 454 load is closer to 5 shot 45 Colt load pressure wise.
    Actually, I've never done any checking. Just assumed with my load, it wouldn't be an issue, and it hasn't.

    Howsomever, it wouldn't hurt to check.

    SOTN
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
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  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by eagle55 View Post
    Here is the load I originally ran through Quickload. 25.5gr Lil'Gun, magnum primers (44.586psi). The first chart is for the 20" barrel on my Rossi levergun. QL estimated that one pretty close at 1693 fps and a 5 shot average on my chrony was 1724fps. The other chart is the same load through the Alaskan's 2.5". QL says 965 fps and I am hoping it is over 1000! Got to looking, this load is 100.6% full according to QL so no compression, but that could be off one way or the other.

    25.5 LilGun Rossi m92.jpg25.5 LilGun SRH Alaskan.jpg

    So just ordered a Redding Profile crimp die off Amazon.. Also the Hi Rez green front sight as well!
    please let us know the velocity you get as i am quite interested in how accurate the computer calculations are vs real life data.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ak-fang View Post
    please let us know the velocity you get as i am quite interested in how accurate the computer calculations are vs real life data.
    'll do that once I work up the courage! Till then for at least a little while as I get to know this gun it will lighter 45LC loads.

    A few things I can say about Quickload is it is a good reality check to look for a starting load, that and there is an element of "garbage in, garbage out" when setting up a load. There are a lot of variables, from bullet profile to case thickness, and chamber size. I find when I take the time to measure and enter as many variables as possible, the computer can estimate pretty darn close. One variable that I have tried with loading the 45/70 was taking a fired case, unresized and filling it with water and weighing the water capacity. There is a place to enter that and it gives QL the exact case volume for your gun's chamber and brass thickness. Kinda cool but a PITA fiddling with a dropper.

    One of the little things it has no way to set parameters that I know of is primers, and I suspect this can be small or huge. Common sense and observation is key. For the record, I am a novice handloader. One of the reasons I bought the software was because at the time I was trying to load for the 45 Colt to Ruger only and was having a hard time finding published loads for the powder and bullets I had for it.

    Since getting QL, I always try to run published start loads through it to see what it says, when I can find them. I had bought some Beartooth 520gr "Sledgehammer" bullets for my 45/70. Their max load on their web site was 44.5 gr of RL7 so I figured 10% less for a starting load. When I put in 40gr RL7, QL didn't like that much at all! Anyway I ended up going all the way down to 32.5gr as a start and went up to 34.5. That was max enough for me, but a full 10 grains under their max. The recoil of my sissy max loads, I am talking retina detaching here! OMG! I'm sure my Marlin could have hung in there with more, but not my shoulder! I am not sure what would have happened with 40, or 44.5gr!

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    eagle55:

    That may be a newer version of QL. I don't recognize the screens.

    I used a version for a while, that didn't belong to me. That one, IIRC wasn't spose to work well with some kinds of handgun cartridges.

    I finally decided QL could get me into trouble, so I forced myself to give it up. It did help me to understand the issues and effects of handloading.

    I think you have the right approach. Goot Shooding.

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
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  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by eagle55 View Post
    I have never had a lockup of any kind in my 44 mag either. I really don't know exactly what made me buy the 454 Alaskan, but I know 45LC loads are not going to cut it with the snub barrel so if it (or me) cannot handle the recoil then I will sell it and go back to the old dependable super blackhawk.

    One thing though, I am 6'2" ,215 lb and strong for my size. I can hold onto a handgun pretty firmly so I am not too concerned about the recoil, particularly with the large Hogue grips this gun came with which fit my hand like a glove. The only concern is whether I can hit something with it where it counts. My plan this summer is to practice with this gun fairly close range (25') in DA mode and if I can manage to remember to shoot it that way if charged I hope I can get the lead in the right place. I am going to be certain the ammo will survive 6 shots without creep and once I get proficient enough with it, it will be carried in place of the 44 mag.
    My old buddy Butch was a a beeg strong fella just like you. He and Dead Eye both shot lots of those supper hot 45 long Colt loads that were bumping on the heels of the 454. Dead Eye was a sniper in Nam and was rough and tumble but not very strong. Shooting those same hot loads Butch's would jump crimp when Dead Eyes wouldn't because Butch held the gun so rock solid whilst Dead Eye sort of limp wristed it! Gosh dang I hate to use that phrase(limp wristed) with Dead Eye cuz he weren't that at all......just not very strong compared to Butch. I reckon you get what I'm meaning!

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by elmerkeithclone View Post
    My old buddy Butch was a a beeg strong fella just like you. He and Dead Eye both shot lots of those supper hot 45 long Colt loads that were bumping on the heels of the 454. Dead Eye was a sniper in Nam and was rough and tumble but not very strong. Shooting those same hot loads Butch's would jump crimp when Dead Eyes wouldn't because Butch held the gun so rock solid whilst Dead Eye sort of limp wristed it! Gosh dang I hate to use that phrase(limp wristed) with Dead Eye cuz he weren't that at all......just not very strong compared to Butch. I reckon you get what I'm meaning!
    I've seen the same in my own hands, depending on my hold. Perversely, I'm more likely to get the creep when shooting from a bench than offhand. Sezz something about the way I hold at the bench, I'm sure.
    "Lay in the weeds and wait, and when you get your chance to say something, say something good."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    eagle55:

    That may be a newer version of QL. I don't recognize the screens.

    I used a version for a while, that didn't belong to me. That one, IIRC wasn't spose to work well with some kinds of handgun cartridges.

    I finally decided QL could get me into trouble, so I forced myself to give it up. It did help me to understand the issues and effects of handloading.

    I think you have the right approach. Goot Shooding.

    Smitty of the North
    Thanks, this is an older one, V3.6. I think I bought in 2012. I noticed they have V3.9 out now so maybe I'll upgrade and give this copy to my oldest brother who has been handloading since the 60's. He is mildly curious!

    I see QL as just an idea of a place to start, along with everything else. It says that you should still start out with published data anyway so as long as you keep that in mind it wont hurt you so long as you follow the rules of common sense (It wont try to stop you from a 10% reduction in H110 when you should only reduce it 3% for instance). Once I get the first loads through the chrony I then have some idea if it was accurate or not pressure wise. Quite often it is, and usually within 100 fps plus or minus. It is fun to run scenarios with various powders and charges, just be reasonable about what you actually are dumping into the case! I like to look at things like how full the case is, is it a compressed load and if so the % of compress. % of powder burnt, muzzle energy, heat of explosion etc. Being a novice I feel like I learn things quicker with it than without it.

    Quote Originally Posted by elmerkeithclone View Post
    My old buddy Butch was a a beeg strong fella just like you. He and Dead Eye both shot lots of those supper hot 45 long Colt loads that were bumping on the heels of the 454. Dead Eye was a sniper in Nam and was rough and tumble but not very strong. Shooting those same hot loads Butch's would jump crimp when Dead Eyes wouldn't because Butch held the gun so rock solid whilst Dead Eye sort of limp wristed it! Gosh dang I hate to use that phrase(limp wristed) with Dead Eye cuz he weren't that at all......just not very strong compared to Butch. I reckon you get what I'm meaning!
    I can imagine, squeezing rounds off from a snipers rifle the grip is very lax. Do that with something like the Alaskan, and it could bite you in the noggin!

    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    I've seen the same in my own hands, depending on my hold. Perversely, I'm more likely to get the creep when shooting from a bench than offhand. Sezz something about the way I hold at the bench, I'm sure.
    I guess one way to look at crimp creep is that it isn't the bullet pulling forward from the case, but the gun pulling back and leaving the heavy bullets stationary, at least an incremental amount. Good grip on the gun, that limits its movement seems as important as good crimps! If a gun a few pounds heavier is all that is needed to prevent bullets from creeping forward, then that weight should be able to be compensated with a a few pounds of arm grip on a lighter gun like the Alaskan. Will be interesting...

  16. #76
    Member Doug in Alaska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eagle55 View Post
    Since getting QL, I always try to run published start loads through it to see what it says, when I can find them. I had bought some Beartooth 520gr "Sledgehammer" bullets for my 45/70. Their max load on their web site was 44.5 gr of RL7 so I figured 10% less for a starting load. When I put in 40gr RL7, QL didn't like that much at all! Anyway I ended up going all the way down to 32.5gr as a start and went up to 34.5. That was max enough for me, but a full 10 grains under their max. The recoil of my sissy max loads, I am talking retina detaching here! OMG! I'm sure my Marlin could have hung in there with more, but not my shoulder! I am not sure what would have happened with 40, or 44.5gr!
    Ha, I know what you mean! I also shoot 520 grain 'Sledgehammers' in my Guide Gun for bear protection. They'll definitely wake you up while shooting on the range.
    Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

  17. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    I've seen the same in my own hands, depending on my hold. Perversely, I'm more likely to get the creep when shooting from a bench than offhand. Sezz something about the way I hold at the bench, I'm sure.
    I have been trying to wear out this SP101 and in the process I loaded a couple hundred big hard cast. I loaded them warm on purpose because I was shooting bowling pins with the gang and they shoot big bullets in their 1911s....a peep squeak 38 load won't always knock a pin over. I shot a dozen or so off the bench just to see where the SP101 launched them and I got some crimp jump when my elbows were on the bench. Never ever had that happen in a 357 before. I put another 1/4 turn in my crimp die which was still in the press and ran them through again. No problems when free handing the SP101 at bowling pins. Stout loads in that little SP101 are still more comfortable than the Chiefs special with light loads. Kinda like a big handled screwdriver vs a skinny handled screw driver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug in Alaska View Post
    Ha, I know what you mean! I also shoot 520 grain 'Sledgehammers' in my Guide Gun for bear protection. They'll definitely wake you up while shooting on the range.
    Did you run those 520's over the chronograph? If so what were you getting for speed? Where I stopped at 34.5 gr RL7, mine were right at 1400 fps. I have zero desire to push those any harder.

  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug in Alaska View Post
    Ha, I know what you mean! I also shoot 520 grain 'Sledgehammers' in my Guide Gun for bear protection. They'll definitely wake you up while shooting on the range.
    I shot a couple of them Sledgehammers in H&R 45-70 once shooter a time ago and it weren't no fun. It had a way high cheek piece and it slap the snot out of me. Kinda reminded me of an old TC Renegade 54 that hated me!

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