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Thread: Unit 26 RAC wants to close Central Arctic Herd no Haul Road Caribou

  1. #61

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    No...They can barter in a traditional way but not sell.

  2. #62
    Member tod osier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gulkana Rafting View Post
    No...They can barter in a traditional way but not sell.
    Thanks, Same difference, really in my thinking. They are taking them as a commodity on Federal land and restricting those that would like to take them to feed their family (non local residents, be it Alaskans or nonresidents).

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    Wish I could go outside and shoot money...
    Www.blackriverhunting.com
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by tod osier View Post
    Thanks, Same difference, really in my thinking. They are taking them as a commodity on Federal land and restricting those that would like to take them to feed their family (non local residents, be it Alaskans or nonresidents).
    When looking at it from a modern Caucasian perspective, I guess you could say that trading of caribou meat for whale meat is commodities trading. However, the Department of Interior doesn't see it that way, even though most Dept. of Interior employees are Caucasian. Oh well. Can't fault indigenous peoples for trying to hold onto the last vestiges of their heritage, when the Federal government is trying to promote it, enhance it and enforce it.

  5. #65
    Member tod osier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    Wish I could go outside and shoot money...
    AND keep everyone else from doing it too on public land.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick940 View Post
    When looking at it from a modern Caucasian perspective, I guess you could say that trading of caribou meat for whale meat is commodities trading. However, the Department of Interior doesn't see it that way, even though most Dept. of Interior employees are Caucasian. Oh well. Can't fault indigenous peoples for trying to hold onto the last vestiges of their heritage, when the Federal government is trying to promote it, enhance it and enforce it.

    Not really a fair comment. I lived in unit 23 for 10 years and as a resident I was afforded all of the same privy as a native resident. This should not drop into the realm of native vs non-native. Its Federally Qualified vs non-quillfied. Dropping the race card will not help the argument at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gulkana Rafting View Post
    Not really a fair comment. I lived in unit 23 for 10 years and as a resident I was afforded all of the same privy as a native resident. This should not drop into the realm of native vs non-native. Its Federally Qualified vs non-quillfied. Dropping the race card will not help the argument at all.
    It wasn't mentioned in a racist tone. I have no issues with First Nations peoples. In fact, First Nations blood flows through my veins. It was merely mentioned as a reference to the intent of the actual law.

  8. #68
    Member tod osier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick940 View Post
    It wasn't mentioned in a racist tone. I have no issues with First Nations peoples. In fact, First Nations blood flows through my veins. It was merely mentioned as a reference to the intent of the actual law.
    I get it as far as the heritage. Point is that the Biology is not with the restriction and that the basic numbers as far as take was that nonlocals were taking a small part of the harvest and what they were taking was not breeding cows and focusing on bulls. Adding that this is on public land and the local harvest is treating the animals as a commodity while excluding other users. I understand it is the law and understand all laws are not right.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by tod osier View Post
    I get it as far as the heritage ............. Adding that this is on public land and the local harvest is treating the animals as a commodity while excluding other users. I understand it is the law and understand all laws are not right.
    So, we've come full circle and we're now back to what I was saying about barring Congressional action, no one is going to change the precedent. There's ways to slow it, but no one is going to change it, short of a law drafted in Congress or an amendment to the existing law created by Congress. But, it can be slowed, to some degree.

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gulkana Rafting View Post
    I dont agree with the FEDs being the bad guys here.!
    You and many others (Maybe nearly all others) see this as a "Local" (Alaska) problem. What I see is that the Federal Government of the United States of America believes that they are the most skilled at managing everything on planet earth. Not only at the micro level of Alaska, but the entire planet. They believe they can manage everything better than States, Cities, Other Countries, Other Continents, Other Hemispheres.

    This has been the evolution of things from the end of WW-II, and will continue along that course. The Federal Government is not necessarily evil in this, they truly believe that they are doing the right thing for the management of humans on planet earth.

    They truly believe they can better manage all things in America, and outside of America. The trickle down of this thinking is the management of resources at all levels.The people of America are for sure not going alter this course.

    There are seven billion humans on planet earth, and doubling every "X" number of years. While I do not agree with much of what America Management does, I do see that broad management of humans and those resources they consume need ever increasing oversight by some entity.

    It is my opinion that people should take "Personal" responsibility to mitigate the impact of easily foreseeable future events effecting their families.

  11. #71

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    You and many others (Maybe nearly all others) see this as a "Local" (Alaska) problem. What I see is that the Federal Government of the United States of America believes that they are the most skilled at managing everything on planet earth. Not only at the micro level of Alaska, but the entire planet. They believe they can manage everything better than States, Cities, Other Countries, Other Continents, Other Hemispheres.


    Ok....You lost me fast with this one...I am not that deeeeep!

  12. #72
    Supporting Member zman313's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gulkana Rafting View Post
    I dont agree with the FEDs being the bad guys here. It comes down to politics at the RAC level. We are seeing Unit 23 pushing the feds due to "Local" political pressure ( wink, wink), winning and now the flood gates are open. I don't think the Federal Managers agree with this but they are at the mercy of whoever swings the political big stick. I know most of the NPS folks in unit 23 and privately they don't see any reason that this should be done...But Officially they are "All-In"

    The new NPS superintendent for the Western Arctic Park Lands is a local with no experience in management or the education that qualifies for the position...But she is "Local" (wink, Wink) and there you have "LocalL control.

    Until we stand up and demand that this stops and management is based upon science rather than "Local" input we will see more and more of this!
    Im not sure the feds are to blame either. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but in talking with the US Dept of Interior/ subsistence division yesterday they informed me that they only make a recommendation to the RAC. In fact the North Slope RAC went against their recommendations when they closed unit 23. I'm trying to find where I read it but the survey done on the CAH revealed that hunting likely had little to do with the decline in #'s. Many may have left with the PCH. It seems as though there are people in positions of authority that should perhaps be investigated and their positions eliminated if necessary.

  13. #73
    Supporting Member zman313's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soggybtmboys View Post
    I sure hope that they don't close down the North Slope to NR. My group is planning a 2018 trip up to probably 26A to chase caribou. Total expenditures when it is said and done is going to come in between $42,000 and $50,000 we will be dumping into the trip. How long before we know something concrete on any closures, because we will be looking to come up with a different game plan, and we would likely shift our focus to Canada or the lower 48 for an adventure of another type. I can understand local concerns, absolutely I can. However, the adverse affects on folks looking to spend time and money from out of state, this does not bode well for future consideration. It appears on the surface to helter skelter to consider an investment of time and money when there is way too much uncertainty from year to year with regulations and closures. Especially in light of the conversations we read about some closures being done for political reasoning and not biological reasoning...or when the alleged biological reasons for closures appear to have been propped up or not properly vetted.

    Word will get out, as it already is down here in the lower 48, and your economies that are tied to non residents coming up and spending 5x or greater the expenditure of local hunters is going to take a significant hit. Any officials that may be reading this and are in a position to weigh in on any sort of influence or voting....I'd think long and hard about future decisions and take a sincere look at the resource without political bias. Alot of nonresidents are watching, outcomes will affect immediate decisions on where we go with our purchase power.
    Well said Soggybtm. If there's any residents gitty over a unit 26 closure they may be in for a surprise, it will be closed to all NR''s and NON-LOCALS.

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