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Thread: NEW Partnership FEDERAL and AK. FEDERATION of NATIVES Land management

  1. #21
    Member cod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akula682 View Post
    That's a bunch of BULLS*** right there!
    Many of us have been warning of Federal meddling for quite some time now. While there are some who will defer these takeovers as insignificant, (and even useful) actions, make no mistake, the Federal govt wants control over 'the people' in every way they possibly can. A conspiracy? No. just part of the 'plan' that has been well established already. Little by little your liberties are being lost and the citizens are being divided.
    Your sarcasm is way, waaaayyyyyyyy more sarcastic than mine!
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  2. #22
    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cod View Post
    ...make no mistake, the Federal govt wants control over 'the people' in every way they possibly can. A conspiracy? No. just part of the 'plan' that has been well established already.
    ...it's a vague, undefinable, but "well established" plan "to control the people in every way possible"........but it's not a conspiracy! ROFLMAO
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
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    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    ...it's a vague, undefinable, but "well established" plan "to control the people in every way possible"........but it's not a conspiracy! ROFLMAO

    its not a "conspiracy" as it is being done in the open, but its still a government body lunging for control of our everyday lives... not all at once, but one by one so everyone doesnt really feel it. that way there isnt any major outcry about freedoms being taken away. people will wake up one day in the future and freedom will be gone, it wont even exist in the history books, just to keep people from want it again.

    what would you call this sort of action?

    http://wbckfm.com/epa-plowing-and-mini-mountain-ranges/

    who in their right minds would have thought that someone in government would call a series of mounds of soil that were formed by Plowing a field "mini mountain ranges"?
    Josh
    Back in Afghanistan, I hope for the last time.

  4. #24
    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akula682 View Post
    its not a "conspiracy" as it is being done in the open, but its still a government body lunging for control of our everyday lives... not all at once, but one by one so everyone doesnt really feel it. that way there isnt any major outcry about freedoms being taken away. people will wake up one day in the future and freedom will be gone, it wont even exist in the history books, just to keep people from want it again.

    what would you call this sort of action?

    http://wbckfm.com/epa-plowing-and-mini-mountain-ranges/

    who in their right minds would have thought that someone in government would call a series of mounds of soil that were formed by Plowing a field "mini mountain ranges"?
    What do I think about the "mini-mountain ranges" assertion? I think the person who said is an idiot. An intentionally divisive idiot. With due respect, the link you posted is some wing-nut radio talk show host's laughable interpretation of a Majority Senate Report about the Clean Water Act. It was an inflammatory statement made to incite ignorant people to call-in to the show and argue about nonsensical falsehoods. The Senate Report itself amounts to a partisan propaganda prop intended to help leverage legislation to undermine the Clean Water Act. Want to have a discussion? Let's discuss pro/con specific's of the Clean Water Act itself, not ridiculous fourth party assertions which are patently false. Have a beef with something specific in the Clean Water Act? Point it out, make your case, and start a facts based discussion.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It

  5. #25
    Member akula682's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    What do I think about the "mini-mountain ranges" assertion? I think the person who said is an idiot. An intentionally divisive idiot. With due respect, the link you posted is some wing-nut radio talk show host's laughable interpretation of a Majority Senate Report about the Clean Water Act. It was an inflammatory statement made to incite ignorant people to call-in to the show and argue about nonsensical falsehoods. The Senate Report itself amounts to a partisan propaganda prop intended to help leverage legislation to undermine the Clean Water Act. Want to have a discussion? Let's discuss pro/con specific's of the Clean Water Act itself, not ridiculous fourth party assertions which are patently false. Have a beef with something specific in the Clean Water Act? Point it out, make your case, and start a facts based discussion.

    i dont want to get off point too much here but... what im gleaning from your reply is that if you cant fathom the wording of a government document to be misinterpreted down the road by a nitwit in political office it cannot happen at all? IF the wording of a federal document can be interpreted in this manner by a regular citizen, it can be interpreted that way by someone who has the power and not necessarily the authority but the Will and Desire to do it... they are going to do it, it wont matter what we think. Its happened already and continues to happen every day.

    (fyi- we have people in political office now that think that Guam is going to "Tip Over" if we put too many people on it, and that the Constitution is over 400 years old and Man walked on Mars back in 69 not the moon.)

    And as far as my beef with the clean water act... i cant put a pond on my property in Upstate NY because there are cattails in the field i want to dig up, LESS than 12 Cattails at last count, And that is enough (I was told 1 was enough to stop it) to keep ANY development from happening. Because of the cattails my field is now "classified" as a wetland, even though its only "wet" from March to early May during the spring, then it dries up and the cattails die off. OH, dont let me forget that there are Millions of cattails in the 2 mile radius of my property, probably 10's of millions, but these 12 will be the death knell of the entire planet if they are dug up and replaced with a pond that will sustain hundreds of new cattails...
    I was told that if they stop by to inspect my property and those cattails are gone (by way of land improvement) i will be charged with a felony and face a fine and/ or jail time.


    my property is 2 miles south of the "pin" in that link, on top of a hill overlooking the marsh/ wetland (mill pond) on the south end of that lake.

    https://www.google.com.eg/maps/place...!4d-77.0765927



    politicians will always try and make a name for themselves, and they WILL walk all over us to do it.
    If that isnt apparent to you in this day and age, im sorry.
    Josh
    Back in Afghanistan, I hope for the last time.

  6. #26
    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akula682 View Post
    i dont want to get off point too much here but... what im gleaning from your reply is that if you cant fathom the wording of a government document to be misinterpreted down the road by a nitwit in political office it cannot happen at all?
    No, Sir. What I can't fathom is why people regularly pluck ridiculous statements off the internet -statements which are obviously false on their face- and hold them up as supporting evidence in attempt to bolster a claim of some grand conspiracy that the government is out to eradicate our individual rights, or whatever the claim might be. I understand persons sometimes being frustrated with their individual situation, and often rightfully so, but I don't understand their propensity to rely on obvious falsehoods when attempting to make a case in support of their rantings. And to use the term "propensity" would seem a mild characterization, given that so many display what would be better described as a zealous determination to seek out falsehoods to support their beliefs. They seem to spent inordinate effort doing so, even when the truth is not so difficult to come by. That's what I can't fathom.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by akula682 View Post


    And as far as my beef with the clean water act... i cant put a pond on my property in Upstate NY because there are cattails in the field i want to dig up, LESS than 12 Cattails at last count, And that is enough (I was told 1 was enough to stop it) to keep ANY development from happening. Because of the cattails my field is now "classified" as a wetland, even though its only "wet" from March to early May during the spring, then it dries up and the cattails die off. OH, dont let me forget that there are Millions of cattails in the 2 mile radius of my property, probably 10's of millions, but these 12 will be the death knell of the entire planet if they are dug up and replaced with a pond that will sustain hundreds of new cattails...
    What you have on your property is called a "Vernal Wetland" and is very important to migrating waterfowl.
    Why? Because of their small size, they warm up much faster (Becoming Ice Free) than large lakes and ponds, allowing for the migrating waterfowl to have place to lay over and rest on their migration north. They also allow feed (Snails, Amphibians and other micro organisms) for waterfowl to wake up earlier than they would in larger colder lakes and ponds.

    Your "one cattail statement" reminds me of what the lumber barons said about the White Pine Trees that were all over the North East and Upper Great Lakes region.

    The White Pine Trees were endless and man could not ever cut them all down.
    Look what happened.
    The White Pine Trees (as a continuous forest Biom) are gone, and most likely were on your property at one time.
    May the rivers be crooked and winding, and the portages lonesome, leading to the most "Amazing View".

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by LindenTree View Post
    What you have on your property is called a "Vernal Wetland" and is very important to migrating waterfowl.
    Why? Because of their small size, they warm up much faster (Becoming Ice Free) than large lakes and ponds, allowing for the migrating waterfowl to have place to lay over and rest on their migration north. They also allow feed (Snails, Amphibians and other micro organisms) for waterfowl to wake up earlier than they would in larger colder lakes and ponds.

    Your "one cattail statement" reminds me of what the lumber barons said about the White Pine Trees that were all over the North East and Upper Great Lakes region.

    The White Pine Trees were endless and man could not ever cut them all down.
    Look what happened.
    The White Pine Trees (as a continuous forest Biom) are gone, and most likely were on your property at one time.
    you kinda make my point for me, i wanted to make a place for birds to hang out, for deer and other animals to have easier access to water on my hill but i am not allowed to because of a BS law. If you look at the link i provided, "Mill Pond" is less than 10 feet deep, and it warms up very quickly. The 2 small lakes north of Mill Pond are also very shallow, Lamoka is listed as being 40 feet deep at its max, and Waneta is about the same, but that is BS as well since they keep the water level low to cut down on the weeds. since the lakes warm up so fast the weed population chokes out all the fish and keeps people from using the lakes. The state poisons the water every few years to try and kill off the weeds, keeping the fish population low as well as killing off smaller creatures, which results in fewer ducks and Canadian geese stopping at the lakes. The state also introduced the Zebra muscle to the ecosystem back in the 70's and 80's so we now have that problem as well.


    My cattail problem- there was/ is no standing water that any bird could use or see, it was just "mushy" when someone walked through there and only in the early spring like 99% of all fields, it just happens with all the cattails in the area a few seeds took root there.
    While i agree with your statement that frogs and snails and what not can use it... it is far from the only mushy place for them, my lower field is so sloppy wet that the farmers cant use it, the last one who tried sank up past the axle on his dually tractor. The trees cant grow there because they fall over before their roots can get deep enough to hold them in place. The heavy grasses are the only thing keeping that part of my field from sliding into the woods.
    And you are also implying that (because of your "lumber baron" remarks) that i want to put something akin to a parking lot there to completely destroy the area, even though i stated that i want to put a pond in. A pond that can and will help the local wild life. And no, they did not wipe out the "white pine" in NY, we are loaded with it. The locals did a number on the maple trees 200 years ago though. "Sugar Hill" (named for all of the maple trees) is now nothing but Pine trees. We still have enough Maple trees to make Maple Syrup every year though.

    You did prove 2 points beyond a shadow of a doubt though,
    First point- people who are not from the area should not be making decisions about it because you dont know the area, you dont have any idea, jokers from Albany (State Capital) did just that.
    And the second point- feel good laws also dont work, and just make law abiding citizens criminals through no fault of their own past just living their lives.

    Every Farmer in my home town is a Felon because of that BS law. No they have not all been in jail, but they all have plowed under sections of cattails in their fields... which is a felony.
    Please explain how that is "right".
    Josh
    Back in Afghanistan, I hope for the last time.

  9. #29
    Member LindenTree's Avatar
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    akula682,

    I can sympathize with you, and thanks for explaining.

    Cattails can act like an impregnable wall for upland nesting birds to get their chicks into the water.
    Cattails in MN have hybridized/cross bred from the two native types to Typha Glauca, hybridized cattails, take over wetlands along the shore in the littoral zone. (Six feet deep or less.)

    When I worked in MN we were trying everything to eradicate cattails for the benefit of upland nesting birds. We even sprayed Rodeo, a herbicide via helicopter. But this only worked fro 3-5 years and was very expensive.

    We tried burning them and then having their roots exposed to the freezing MN winters. Nothing worked.

    I understand your comments about the Farmers plowing them up and the common citizen cannot.
    We have the same issues in MN, the farmers were able to get away with it but you and I cannot.

    Good Luck, and thanks for your attempts to improve habitat.
    May the rivers be crooked and winding, and the portages lonesome, leading to the most "Amazing View".

  10. #30
    Member cdubbin's Avatar
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  12. #32
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    J,

    Certainly seems like a concerning pick with the unit 13 special BOG meeting coming up. Is politics pushing this to force some radical changes to unit 13? It's certainly a question that comes up in my mind. I hope she is fair to all user groups in unit 13 but I have my doubts she will be.

  13. #33

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    this is what's going on, the issues with GMU 13 are consequential, IMO

    http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/...31&context=alr
    https://pristineventures.com

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