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Thread: 3 or 4 brow tines?

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    Default 3 or 4 brow tines?

    Opinions? Seems like 4 to me, but I could also see the "tine in the valley argument." The moose was taken thinking that the width was close, but it had 4 brow tines anyway. Really difficult call in the field. Luckily it measured 50.5" Really good lesson for us.


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    Member ak_cowboy's Avatar
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    That is certainly 3 brow tines with one in the valley. Glad you got lucky on the width.

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    Looks like a grey area, hard to say, i would go with 4 and make the case that it is coming off the brow palm but i can see it being called 3.

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    Three brow tines in my book!

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    I would have to say definetly 3. If you read the discription and look at the picture on pg 30 of the regs I think it's pretty black and white. None of that matters since it was over 50" Congratulations on the full freezer!

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    Reading the regs again I would say its probably three. The tine definitely comes from the brow palm side of the valley though.

    I can see this biting someone very easily as it almost did us.

    Thanks for the opinions.

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    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    "Grey area" my arse. 3 brow tines. Not even worthy of discussion.
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    It's 3...
    It's sketchy to lots of folks, but most F&G cops will tell you that bay points don't count as browtines. Look at that deep blood-vein groove coming off of the main beam to those 3 brows, it doesn't go to the bay point at all. If it did, it'd be considered a browtine. Therefore it's just a separate point.
    That's how Trooper Simeon explained it too me on my moose last year. Even though it was over 50", when Simeon looked at it, I specifically asked him about the exact same bay point that it had as well, and that was his "official" determination....

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    Three. The regulations are pretty clear on ones like this.

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    I would have to say 3. A biologist told me to look at the veins, on this one you can see the separate vein from the extra time in the valley. I don't know if the vein idea is correct or not, or used by others.


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    Quote Originally Posted by homerdave View Post
    "Grey area" my arse. 3 brow tines. Not even worthy of discussion.

    It's very worthy of a discussion. Talking about this type of rack could help people make a better decision in the future.

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    Looks like three to me but some folks see things differently. Yesterday at work me and another guy were looking at a rack on the shed next door,I figured it was under 50 and 3x2. The other guy figured it was over 50 and 3x4. Turned out a f&g employee owns it and said it was 53"
    and 3x2 but he acknowledged a lot of people saw 4 tines on the one side. He showed me a pic of one that just got seized because of the third point on the brow palm not quite making the legal definition

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Three. The regulations are pretty clear on ones like this.
    Exactly.... VERY clear on ones like this. Let's see......is the point located in the middle of the OBVIOUS wide bay? Yes. Is the point projecting forward? No.

    That point is so far from being a brow tine that I also agree, not even worthy of discussion. It's not a wonder that so many sub legal bulls are killed when people actually believe this point is even in question. Shooter was EXTREMELY lucky it was a whopping half inch over 50".

    Quote Originally Posted by akfunhog View Post
    It's very worthy of a discussion. Talking about this type of rack could help people make a better decision in the future.
    The ONLY way this is worthy of discussion is to somebody that is completely new to moose hunting and needs to be totally educated as to what determines a legal bull before even setting foot in the bush wanting to kill one. And even to a newbie, if you can read and look at pictures in the reg. book then again, it's blatantly obvious. If I were you I wouldn't try to back peddle now after getting really lucky, by trying to push it off as helping others make a better decision in the future. Only people that don't care about the "If you're not sure, don't shoot" logic, would have taken that shot. Unless of course you're so gifted as to be able to tell what one half inch looks like on a 50" moose rack. I know I can't....
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    I think you are being a little hard on the guy 4mer. This site should be an education site, I encourage folks to ask questions and get clarity. That being said the dude did get totaly lucky. Been there before, shooting a moose that was 51. Its often hard to make this decision in the heat of the moment. Take your time and study the critter.

    Here is a similar moose that I took this year. I shot him based solely on size as he was clearly legal. Closer exam shows the same type of mid-bay tine. Jesse showed me the vein when I dropped him off.



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    Quote Originally Posted by tlingitwarrior View Post
    I think you are being a little hard on the guy 4mer.
    You're right, and after I typed that I felt I had been. So I do, in fact, apologize to the op. It's just that so many restrictions have been placed on us, especially down here on the Kenai that it gets really old seeing things like this. You can tell how frustrating people are in the Homer moose kill thread about all the sublegal bulls being killed. And then something like this pops up yet again. You know darn good and well the op wasn't absolutely sure and just disregarded the "If not sure don't shoot" thought pattern that is preached in the regs. and videos. Never the less, education is key and I guess this is yet another "educating" thread....

    btw....your bull isn't even worthy of discussion.........lol. Sure like how it sits there on the tailgate like that!
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    Member alaska_pike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post
    Exactly.... VERY clear on ones like this. Let's see......is the point located in the middle of the OBVIOUS wide bay? Yes. Is the point projecting forward? No.

    That point is so far from being a brow tine that I also agree, not even worthy of discussion. It's not a wonder that so many sub legal bulls are killed when people actually believe this point is even in question. Shooter was EXTREMELY lucky it was a whopping half inch over 50".



    The ONLY way this is worthy of discussion is to somebody that is completely new to moose hunting and needs to be totally educated as to what determines a legal bull before even setting foot in the bush wanting to kill one. And even to a newbie, if you can read and look at pictures in the reg. book then again, it's blatantly obvious. If I were you I wouldn't try to back peddle now after getting really lucky, by trying to push it off as helping others make a better decision in the future. Only people that don't care about the "If you're not sure, don't shoot" logic, would have taken that shot. Unless of course you're so gifted as to be able to tell what one half inch looks like on a 50" moose rack. I know I can't....

    Some valid points made here but i can still see a lot of people taking a bull like this out. Seeing it point blank most would err caution in taking this animal but through a spotting scope at 3 to 400 yards i wonder how your judgement might change.

  17. #17

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    Definitely 3. I had a fish and wildlife trooper show me in the field one time that if the vein/artery that goes to the brow does not connect to the tine in the bay than it is not a brow tine. Never take a chance with one of those tweener tines. They'll get you in trouble every time. That being said, who in the heck can recognize a vein/artery with binos at 100 yards? Nobody. So don't chance it. Not worth it.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by tlingitwarrior View Post
    I think you are being a little hard on the guy 4mer. This site should be an education site, I encourage folks to ask questions and get clarity. That being said the dude did get totaly lucky. Been there before, shooting a moose that was 51. Its often hard to make this decision in the heat of the moment. Take your time and study the critter.

    Here is a similar moose that I took this year. I shot him based solely on size as he was clearly legal. Closer exam shows the same type of mid-bay tine. Jesse showed me the vein when I dropped him off.



    Nice bull Tlingitwarrior! What did he go? Looks close to 65-70" to me.

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    It's a 3. We just went through this same thing at work. If that same tine was between the skull (not too close) and the palm, then it could be a 4.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushwhack Jack View Post
    That being said, who in the heck can recognize a vein/artery with binos at 100 yards? Nobody.
    No, but at close range through a good spotting scope somebody may be able to. So they should put that info about the vein in the regs....
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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