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Thread: APOSTASY - Yep that's right I have fallen away!!!

  1. #1

    Default APOSTASY - Yep that's right I have fallen away!!!

    Now you know I am a 30-06 fan from reading my former posts on this and other forums. But you nor I, nor anyone can get the 06 to group as well as some other cartridges and espescially the 308, try as we have. Am I saying the 308 is the best cartridge, HEAVENS NO!!! Now some might debate what I have just said and I look forward to the opporunity since so much of what could be said I do not have the time and space to do so. I have worked on loads with the 06 and have owned some of the most expensive and fine rifles in the 06 cartridge for over 30yrs of reloading and shooting the 06. My best shooter in the 06 group of rifles I own is really not a true 06, it is a Custom Sako TRG 30-06 Ackley Improved with a Lilja 24" barrel and yet it even has not out shot the following cartridges and rifles. I have shot some awesome one whole groups in my life from the Sako custom 7mm 08, Savage 7mmSTW, Sako 308, Custom Mark V 300WBY, these being a few but all of these have out shot my 06's for accuracy and I am hear to tell you the 06 is not the best or most accurate cartridge for shooting or hunting. Yes, it is the closest thing to an all around cartridge in some respects but the problem with the 06 is that, it can do a lot of things but not any one thing better than other special cartridges. If it could, then I for one and most anyone with shooting skills and hunting concerns would NOT have turned to other cartridges and every one would shoot a 30-06 because hunters and shooters want the best for the job. If you are going to use the 06 for everything in north america because it is all you can afford then you are not really being honest. Why? Well if you are going to use it on everything which means you could afford the hunting trips, then you also could afford other special cartridges and should use them because they meet certain hunting and game conditions better than the 06 can. After a little more than 30yrs with loading shooting, hunting with the 06 I have come to a conclusion that will be considered in my opinion by the uninformed and those without years of trial and error experience "apostasy." So be it, then I have fallen from the faithful. And if the faithful are those that are biased due to ignorance and lack of experience then I am glad that I have fallen into apostasy. In fact, I have been set free from "trying out of pride," "trying out of shooting skills" "spending tons of money on rifles and loading components, to hold on to the illusion and the laborious task of proving the impossible, that the 06 is the best. Free at last, Yes!!! Free at last.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  2. #2

    Default

    My,my,my................. ya just gotta lay off that second pot of coffee before noon.
    Dan

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan K View Post
    My,my,my................. ya just gotta lay off that second pot of coffee before noon.
    Dan
    Yea, I did have a second pot matter of fact today. The 30-06! I have owned 6 different rifle makes in 06. Yes it is a grand cartridge but it is not the best. Most popular, YES! An Icon, YES! All around cartridge, NO! There isn't one! Most 30 cal. cartridges are great ones but none fill the illusive "All In One Rifle." Being a die hard fan for all these years, what I said I did not say lightly nor with indifference but with much respect and will from time to time pick mine up and use them. But I will accept it for what it is and not pretend or make it something it is not, nor will I act or talk like it is the magic cartridge with no inherent weakness.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  4. #4
    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Default

    It is indeed heart braking to loose one from the fold, many years ago I made the same feeling know in a group of bench rest shooters that had been around from the 1950's.

    Allan Hall put my feet back on the path with a story about L.E. WILSON.
    It seems a number of shooters were of the same opinion years ago. L.E. had heard enough of this assault on the grand old round and got to working on the ctg.

    Of course the great old tool maker shut everyone up by cleaning their clocks with the old "06". The secret is to find straight brass.

    The reason the .308 WINCHESTER shoots better groups is it's a shorter case.

    I know where you are comming from Brother beartooth, Just what is "minute of moose"?

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Al View Post

    I know where you are comming from Brother beartooth, Just what is "minute of moose"?
    What is minute of MOOSE? A 300WBY mag! That was a really good post you made. I believe if the manufactures would offer the 06 in 1 and 11 or 1 and 12 twist it would help the smaller bullets but 1 and 10 makes the heavier bullets work well, of course that is the problem, everyone wants to make the 30-06 the all around cartridge. Once again, I really like my 06 but I am not going to try any more to make it what it is not. One of my favorite rifles is my 30-06 Ackley IMp. My handloads in this rifle actually are better than a 300H&H which I think was a real killer also. I will not limit myself to the idea anymore of an all-a-round rifle. In doing so I find myself with either to much or not enough or just so so, depending on the kind of hunting or circumstances, when that is not needed with all the great cartridges out there today.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  6. #6
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    Wha...huh?

    Here I thought, you thought the .300 Weatherby was like The Second Coming, and now you're jumping ship!

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitroman View Post
    Wha...huh?

    Here I thought, you thought the .300 Weatherby was like The Second Coming, and now you're jumping ship!
    If it is sinking I will jump ship, but that does not change what I have concluded. I will not limit myself to the idea anymore of an all-a-round rifle. In doing so I find myself with either to much or not enough or just so so, depending on the kind of hunting or circumstances, when that is not needed with all the great cartridges out there today. If a man can not admit he is wrong, then he really is wrong. I was wrong, plain an simple. Won't happen again when it comes to a cartridge or cal. I will find the one for the job. Come to think of it, that would give me excuse to buy some new ones.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  8. #8

    Default Conclusion?

    No offense, Beartooth, but what will inevitably be your conclusion? I have a feeling it will be whatever you discover next week or the week after. I am not going to getting into a pissing match with you about various cartridges, though I may very well have shot more of various calibers in my 40 someodd years of shooting and reloading, including my professional loading times. Everybody has an opinion about what is best and if it is best for them, so be it. Place your shot right with a within reason caliber for the purpose and you are doing fine. To say the '06 is not a great all around cartridge flies in the face of common sense, but then what has that got to do with anything this week, right? Everybody ought to enjoy what they have and try whatever is new they are interested in, but to say that its the best is just plain silly. All done.

  9. #9
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    Default I get it!

    Well slap me up side the head and send me down the road talking to myself! I get it! If there were only ONE perfect all around cartridge we would not have any excuse to buy the others!
    So, we need one for every occasion. Let's see if I get this right. "Honey, if I am going to be successful I NEEEEED another gun. I don't want one, but I HAVE to have one. If I could put meat on the table with only one gun certainly that is what I would do. But if we really want meat, then I just GOTTA get another one!"
    Hopefully by the time the wife gets back into town I will have the presentation perfected. Then, Wallah! A new gun will appear! I am SOOOO excited to try out the new pitch.
    Thanks for showing me the light. I will let you know how it works out. Ooops, almost forgot. What am I going to get?

  10. #10
    Member bigswede358's Avatar
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    Default Your .02

    Beartooth,
    Once again you have missed the whole nail. You obviously have more spare time and deeper pockets than the majority of red blooded American hunters. You are wrong, it is possible to have one all around gun. I'm not saying it is the 30-06 or any other caliber. If a person wants one gun for everything then whatever he owns and shoots proficiently is a good all around caliber. I have personally known many people who take this approach, and they have used everything from a 220 swift up to the big 45's and beyond for a one gun do everything arsenal. Many people who go on different hunts for different species scrimp and save for the hunt and no they cannot afford a new specialized rifle for each hunt. This is just my .05, keep the change.
    LIVE TO HUNT....HUNT TO LIVE!!!!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by beartooth View Post
    If it is sinking I will jump ship, but that does not change what I have concluded. I will not limit myself to the idea anymore of an all-a-round rifle. In doing so I find myself with either to much or not enough or just so so, depending on the kind of hunting or circumstances, when that is not needed with all the great cartridges out there today. If a man can not admit he is wrong, then he really is wrong. I was wrong, plain an simple. Won't happen again when it comes to a cartridge or cal. I will find the one for the job. Come to think of it, that would give me excuse to buy some new ones.
    Well sir it is about time you came around. Now you have freed yourself from the prison of the One Firearm, you can stretch your wings, er, pocketbook, and join in the fun. Which reminds me, I haven't purchased a firearm since the .410 singleshot I bought last September. Hmmm.....

    And regarding what River Rat sed: when two firearms are left in a corner by themselves, they have babies! Try that one on her and see how it goes.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitroman View Post
    Well sir it is about time you came around. Now you have freed yourself from the prison of the One Firearm, you can stretch your wings, er, pocketbook, and join in the fun. Which reminds me, I haven't purchased a firearm since the .410 singleshot I bought last September. Hmmm.....

    And regarding what River Rat sed: when two firearms are left in a corner by themselves, they have babies! Try that one on her and see how it goes.
    Now I like that, my guns need babies! I have got to remember that one.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by mauserboy View Post
    No offense, Beartooth, but what will inevitably be your conclusion?
    You obviously missed it, can't you read, I told you what it was.
    Let me say if for you again "THERE IS NO ALL AROUND CARTRIDGE!"

    I have a feeling it will be whatever you discover next week or the week after.
    It is what I have over 30yrs discovered and it has nothing to do with your feelings.

    I am not going to getting into a pissing match with you about various cartridges, though I may very well have shot more of various calibers in my 40 someodd years of shooting and reloading, including my professional loading times.
    Did I miss something or did you, I held no cartridge above any other and I like all my cartridges I own including my 06's.

    Everybody has an opinion about what is best and if it is best for them, so be it. Place your shot right with a within reason caliber for the purpose and you are doing fine.
    You said, "Within Reason Caliber", thank you, you made my point.

    To say the '06 is not a great all around cartridge flies in the face of common sense, but then what has that got to do with anything this week, right?
    Don't put words in my mouth I did not say it is not a great round and it is not "THE" all around cartridge.

    Everybody ought to enjoy what they have and try whatever is new they are interested in, but to say that its the best is just plain silly. All done.
    Once again did I miss something or did you? You did!! I never said any cartridge is the best, and once again you make my point. Do you even have a point???
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  14. #14

    Default '06

    Perhaps you can help us understand why the '06 won the Palma Cup at Camp Perry for about 50 years in a row?

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7STW View Post
    Perhaps you can help us understand why the '06 won the Palma Cup at Camp Perry for about 50 years in a row?
    The other cartridges that have taken it away from the 06 were for the most part not around. Easy to win when there really was not any real competition. Can't believe you even ask that?????
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  16. #16
    Member
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    Default I hear the crying

    Yes, I can hear them babies crying for attention right this very minute. And with the wife out of town, well, I think there may be triplets! A new handgun, shotgun, and long gun. Oh no, not enough room in the nursery. I am gonna halfto get a bigger gun safe, I mean nursery.

    And no way Mr. Tooth am I doubting your word or experience. I will take it all at face value. Just having some fun while thinking about the possibilities.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7STW View Post
    Perhaps you can help us understand why the '06 won the Palma Cup at Camp Perry for about 50 years in a row?
    Could not believed you ask this question and for got to say that now -
    In a true Palma sanctioned match, the only rifle chambering allowed is the .308 Win/7.62 Nato.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  18. #18

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    Well, I have worked this one long enough and I knew writing what I wrote concerning the 06 would get me into all kinds of trouble. One person told me it would be suicide to post my belief on the subject. Well, I appriciate all the posts, the agruments, some were good, some compelling, some weak, some strong. Agreed with some did not with others. What did I accomplish, not much, but it was an adventure to say the least. Lot of passion when it comes to our rifles, shooting and hunting. Thanks it was fun.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  19. #19

    Default

    Hey Beartooth,

    I just noticed a hornets' nest under one of my eaves. Wanna come over and knock it down with a stick for me? Things were getting a little slow here and you certainly stirred the pot. I've long considered the 30-06 the finest backup caliber you could have because of it's versatility and availability of ammo. It's accurate enough for me because, in a decent rifle, an 06 is capable of shooting a group better than I can hold in a hunting situation. If I was hunting mule deer my first choice would be my .270, and for elk my 300 Win Mag. If I had tags for both I would give serious consideration to one of my 06's with 168 gr TSX's or 180 gr. Partitions as the primary rifle. But then, I don't shoot at the distances you do. I'm hard put to think of a cartridge that has low enough recoil that you could shoot at prairie dogs all day (I'm not saying you'd hit 'em all) and still be able capable of being quite adequate (again adequate not ideal) to deal with a grizzly. Unfortunately, not everyone can afford (financially or maritally) to have the "right tool for the job," and I'm personally glad we have the old 06 to kick around.

  20. #20

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    Hey Flyer55,

    I do agree with the back up. The 06 is a perfect back up and can be used and should if you have a mixed hunt and want to only to take one rifle. Yes! I know what I just said I would use my 30-06 Ackley Imp. for that job. It did put a black bear down last Oct. for me. I guess in all that I said I could have summed it up with just saying that "the 06 is a pretty good jack of all trades and a master of none. I guess that would even fit a lot of us shooters and hunters, it sure fits me. later
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

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