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Thread: Kafc?

  1. #1

    Default Kafc?

    Just looked a the half page ad in the P-Clarion created by the new (at least I think it's fairly new) Kenai area fisherman's coalition. I understand this group is made up of former biologists and private anglers and what ever info I could get from the ADN article and various letters and compass pieces in the Clarion and ADN. Does this group have a website- where can one learn more about their goals/mission statement? How is this group funded? How does one contact it's leadership. If this is information you do not want to share with all members of this forum send me a P.M.

  2. #2

    Default Interesting Related Topic...

    http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/kenai...-9028544c.html

    Related article in the Anchorage Daily News. I love the audacity of the guides saying they have the protection of the river as their number one priority. Remember during the State Parks in-river survey a few years back where a majority of the private fishermen (i.e. non-commercial Alaskan "sport" fishermen) stated that the number one problem was that there were too many guides on the river. And the State did nothing to address this problem but instead caved into the guides special interest request to up the HP to 50 and get even more private anglers off the river.

    What a great state we live in.

  3. #3
    Member Danny Boy's Avatar
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    Default

    The only contact information listed is an address at the bottom of the ad. It is as follows:

    Kenai Area Fishermen's Coalition
    47083 Belmont Court
    Kenai, AK 99611

    This is the first time I've heard anything about this group but I'm certainly interested in the heart of their message. I actually wrote a letter to the editor that was in the Peninsula Clarion a few weeks back that parallels their sentiments. Here's the link...

    http://peninsulaclarion.com/stories/...70615003.shtml

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    They are an absolute JOKE!!! They claim to be open and transparent yet they have no website or list of members. You can't even become a member without board approval. Last I heard they only had 15 members. They are pro-commercial fishermen (as some of their biologists are retired commercial fisheries biologists). They are anti-guide and anti-Kenai Sportfish Association, the largest contributer to habitat developemt. They are a mouth peice for locals who hate anyone who fishes "their" river. Heck, most of them (KAFC) are never on the river and only hear of possible problems.

    They are a JOKE!!!!

  5. #5

    Default

    The KAFC ad seemed to be in response to the KRSA ad that was in the Clarion. The KRSA ad was POSITIVE, listing the contributions that have been made by the organization. It was factual. The KAFC ad was completely NEGATIVE and mostly based on opinion. I can't believe the Clarion would accept an ad that was as bad as that. Are there no standards? Maybe KRSA should take an ad out that says "retired biologist are incompetent and they're opinions mean nothing" or some other venomous statement. I'm sure they wouldn't do this because they would sooner take the high road instead of slinging mud.

    I recall someone stating that we don't need to cause discord and rancor in the community. What the heck was the KAFC ad all about??? Anyone care to defend it?

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    They won't defend it because that is what they are about, attacking. They run an attack at at the only group that has actually done something to protect the habitat of the Kenai River. KAFC has done absolutely nothing except complain and is just a bunch of retired biologists with nothing better to do, maybe they should just go fishing on the river (which is seems none of them do regularly).

    I actually think the KAFC is a front group for the commercial fishermen to gain influence in the sportfish arena under the guise of "Joe Fishermen". That would explain the secrecy and membership being restricted to those selected by the board. How can a group consider themselves transparent without a website in todays age of technology.

    What a joke! I would guess their mission statement would read, "Divide and Conquer"

    As far as the Clarion accepting the ad, money talks. The leaders of the Kenai Area Fishermens Coalition should be ashamed of themselves. I am glad the KRSA took the high road.

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    Default Yukon is wrong

    Yukon, your true colors are coming out. As a guide you support an organization that promotes your agenda to the fullest and attack those who question that agenda. The retired biologist you speak of come from both the sport fish division and commercial fisheries division. Also, there are federal biologist who have been removed from the allocation decisions.

    You cannot dismiss these biologist so easily with words like you use. They have too many years on the Kenai and published too many scientific papers to make the claims you do.

    Also, the biologist have made no attempt to hide their idendity and the organization controls who is on the board so guides like you and others cannot coop their organization. They will remain a voice for the average fisherman and scientist who want to see the river protected for all users - not the self interest of just guides.

    However, if you read the ad carefully it is not about guides - it is about using money coming from defense contractors and others who really do not care about the Kenai River. It is about the end justifing the means. It is about upsetting the balance of public involvement via specail interest.

    So cry all you want - you sound just like my kids when they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar- there is some accountability in this world and Ted Stevens and KRSA is going to be accountable. For a start lets open up the books and see how much money each defense contractor gave and how that money was spent by KRSA - the Coalition will open their books - I believe they had about 800 dollars in the bank and the ad cost 700. So that is open and transparent - lets open up KRSA books and see how that money is spent.

    Also, tell me one parcel of land left in a natural state by KRSA - it is all about providing access and high density access.

    So keep on your path Yukon and someday you will wish that you listened to those 10 biologist who are trying to protect a resource that you benifit from

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    What is one thing KAFC has done except complain about others. They are an elitist group trying to influence the process. hmmmm.... the same thing they seem to accuse KRSA of.....

    Sounds like a pretty smart group, bunch of college educated biologists that spend $700 of their $800 on an attack add.....maybe the should recruit a CPA...their true colors are showing.....

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    Default one thing they have done

    In answer to your question Yukon one thing those biologist have done is told the truth, something KRSA has a hard time doing.

    The other thing those biologist have done is keep the river as the most important part of their agenda. Not the self interest that guides and other users have put forth. Your name calling speaks volumes to your fear of the truth.

    Finally, they have dedicated their lives to keeping resources healthy for all to use.

    So Yukon - what have you done to protect the river? I will add up those 10 biologist against 10 guides anyday and see what the public thinks about who would protect the river for future generations.

    The ad was paid for with funds from the members - however as you probably fear the response has been great - I assume more money will come in but KAFC did not run it to make money - they ran the ad because they believe it.

    Be afraid of the truth Yukon - for it will eventually prevail.

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    The KAFC propaganda machine is in full swing.......

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    Default nice try Yukon

    Keep trying to label Yukon but that dog will not hunt.

    Lets debate the issues - are there too many guides on the river, is the habitat healthy and sustainable with the present levels of growth, does KRSA get money from defense contractors who are here to influence decision makers, did the AG office rule that the Classic is an event designed to influence decision makers and thus Board of Fish members cannot attend (by the way the past Classics were also a violation of this ethical law), has KRSA kept one piece of land in a natural state without development, did KRSA personel testify that there should be no limit on guides, did the founder of KRSA try to get local biologists and researchers removed from their jobs, did KRSA spend monies to fund guide representation at the BOF meetings, did KRSA use monies to pay outside consultants to push their agenda and used misinformation to do so, and the list goes on.

    Lets debate it Yukon or is the real propaganda coming out of the KRSA by trying to say that KAFC is just a bunch of negative people. I think you speak to this very well - no response to the issues just a label tactic. Again, that dog will not hunt.

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    i always did like the original recipe chicken they serve,and throw in some taters and gravy,yummmmmmmmm.

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    Roast all you want, you throw accusations around everywhere......more propaganda. KAFC is a bunch of bitter retired biologists who hate KRSA and Guides, plain and simple. By your list of accusations it sounds like some of the retired biologists have alterior motives and an axe to grind. If they truely cared about the river they would be trying to work with the various user groups as opposed to attacking them. Maybe Marcus could moderate.....
    $700 of an $800 budget on a attack add....that one kills me.....

  14. #14
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    Default Thank you KAFC!

    Finally, we are getting some grassroots sportsman's orgs in Alaska who are willing to tell the truth and attempt to promote change, even though they are going up against some very powerful big-money orgs with a lot of political connections and clout. I say THANK YOU to KAFC from the bottom of my heart.

    Yukon, I am sorry to see you call KAFC a "joke." I have listened to the Kenai River Sportfishing Assn. push for more more more anglers on the Kenai, more more more boats, more horsepower, and things that have absolutely nothing to do with protecting habitat of the Kenai (and thus the fishery itself). There is a point when some of us just get fed up with orgs that say they are all about "conservation" and "habitat protections," and then they espouse the opposite.

    It is time for Alaskans to stand up to big money and the influence they peddle that is only interested in short-term economic gains that cause long-term problems. I have come into all this with an open mind; I have listened to, and read, what comes out of KRSA, whether in the legislature or on their website. Every org like theirs with a big bankroll uses some of it for ostensible "good." This is the way people get "bought," or the common man gets fooled into believing they are all good. I listened to KRSA give a talk to the legislature last winter. I heard them call for the sport-fish economic study in order to prove how many dollars sport-fishing brings to this state. I listened to Bob Penney tell everyone that we should be putting MORE salmon into the Kenai in order to "let the economic engine run hard." Meaning...they want more fish, more anglers, more hotels, more non-res anglers, more boats, more development, more of everything.

    There is no moderation, no real concern for the future of the river, and no real concern for the needs and wants of Alaskans. This has been discussed on other threads. I posted this quote by Bob Penney from KRSA elsewhere:
    "Make more fish available to the public...believe me the tourists will come...put more fish in the river and watch the economic engine run hard."

    This is what KRSA advocates. There is no denying it. I view KAFC as a welcome altenative voice of reason.
    Sincerely,

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    Default Stinking up the river. . .

    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    I posted this quote by Bob Penney from KRSA elsewhere:
    "Make more fish available to the public...believe me the tourists will come...put more fish in the river and watch the economic engine run hard."
    The fish that used to be part of and helped sustain a way of life have been corrupted and debauched into fuel for an economic engine that cranks out money the love of which, as we've been warned, is the root of all evil.

    How vulgar. Too much fecal coliform in the Kenai these days . . .


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    Default Yukon wrong again

    Quote Originally Posted by yukon View Post
    Roast all you want, you throw accusations around everywhere......more propaganda. KAFC is a bunch of bitter retired biologists who hate KRSA and Guides, plain and simple. By your list of accusations it sounds like some of the retired biologists have alterior motives and an axe to grind. If they truely cared about the river they would be trying to work with the various user groups as opposed to attacking them. Maybe Marcus could moderate.....
    $700 of an $800 budget on a attack add....that one kills me.....
    Yukon, keep trying to label all 10 biologist as bitter, poorly educated, and having alterior motives. Truth is that you cannot back up one of these statements. First, of the ten biologist 2 are federal, 4 are from sport fish division, 1 is from Fred division, 2 are from commercial fisheries division, 1 is a not with government. Nice try on the bitter - why would these individuals all hate guides and KRSA - maybe the common ground is what they see as professionals as to what is happening on the river and to it.

    Please give me a reason given my posts to justify that I hate guides - I have said over and over that I use a guide to fish the river since I do not own a boat. I also have advocated for reducing the number of guides but so has the guide association. If you ever talked to anyone on the KAFC board of directors that are biologist you would know the issue is the direction the Kenai River is headed relative to habitat and that KRSA does not promote habitat issues but uses habitat as a way to cover other agendas.

    So lets stick to answering the questions that I posed - Yukon you are coming across poorly by not debating the issues. Not a big deal to me but it does hurt your positions.

    Oh, to make you feel worse - the money is flowing in from the ad. Looks like the 700 dollars will generate a lot more and we will be ahead - that just points out the sleeping lion is coming awake -

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    Default More pollution. . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    Yukon, keep trying to label all 10 biologist as bitter, poorly educated, and having alterior motives. Truth is that you cannot back up one of these statements.
    Methane, Nerka, it's just methane gas. Were ol' yukon to light a match, he'd blow himself and the forums to smithereens.

    Got to pondering Penny's and KRSA's "economic engine" somebody needs to put a governor on that overheated, pollution-belching, 2-stroke (pun intended).



  18. #18
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    Default I found this amusing

    In the ADN article titled "Local group says outsiders determine river's fate" ---(http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story...8544c.html)---
    there was a picture by Brandom Loomis. Here is the caption:
    Kenai River Sportfishing Association board member Ben Ellis, staffing the Kenai River Classic's hospitality "fun boat," hoists a basket of vodka, tomato juice, Irish cream and cigars to participants as they fish.

    I guess when you pay $4k to enter the classic, there are certain perks <grin>!

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    So it is about money, looks like the ad worked. We have debated all of this over and over again, you won't change my mine and I won't change yours, I don't really see the point. Everything I have said is my and only my opinion. You and your group have thrown some pretty big allegations against KRSA out there. KRSA can take care of themselves, I obviously do not speak for them and I won't debate here in what might appear as arguments by them. That is not my intention, nor has it ever.
    I actually have better things to do than go in circles with you, like go fishing.
    Maybe KAFC should spend their time on the fishery and its issues rather than attacking other groups. Maybe the KAFC should work with the other groups instead of attack them. Just a couple thoughts. Man, now I sound like Marcus!
    Have a good day all!

  20. #20

    Default pandering

    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    In the ADN article titled "Local group says outsiders determine river's fate" ---(http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story...8544c.html)---
    there was a picture by Brandom Loomis. Here is the caption:
    Kenai River Sportfishing Association board member Ben Ellis, staffing the Kenai River Classic's hospitality "fun boat," hoists a basket of vodka, tomato juice, Irish cream and cigars to participants as they fish.

    I guess when you pay $4k to enter the classic, there are certain perks <grin>!
    Yes, I read that article. Such pure pandering really makes one wonder...
    "The Gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent in fishing" Assyrian Tablet 2000 B.C.

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