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Thread: How Big? How Do You Tell?

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Default How Big? How Do You Tell?

    Lots of folks are packing all manner of cameras, high tech scopes, range finders and other gizmos in the field these days...yet judging by the constant "WAG the size of this one" picture threads, and annual reports of way too many sub-legal animals being killed, it seems like few folks have figured out any reliable means of using any of their gizmos to measure size in the field. Why not?

    What do you do? Anyone have any tricks other than guessing?
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
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  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Why not.....?

    What do you do? Anyone have any tricks other than guessing?


    Why Not....... Lack of experience in the field. People think some wizz-bang gadget will help compensate for lack of experience.




    What do you do? Anyone have any tricks other than guessing?........... The trick is to live in the field, studying the animals. you contrast someone with 60 years in the wilderness living and learning with someone who has never seen the animal for which he quests, outside the zoo.....puts in for a lottery, wins.......then wants to know, "Where do I go, to kill this".

    They have no respect for the animal, no respect for the Majesty of the Wilderness. Truth be told most are terrified to be alone in the wilderness for even one night, let alone weeks or months (alone).

    They want to start at the top......they all want to be Joe Want.........but without the work. Just because you kill something does not make you a hunter, does not make you an Outdoors-man, does not entitle one to respect. What is interesting about these hunter forums is........ that people think they can raise their perceived entitlement to respect, by attacking the Masters......like Joe Want. They run off the very men who could teach them, who want to help them.

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    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    The trick is to live in the field, studying the animals. you contrast someone with 60 years in the wilderness living and learning with someone who has never see the animal for which he quests, outside the zoo.....puts in for a lottery, wins.......then wants to know, "Where do I go, to kill this". They have no respect for the animal, no respect for the Majesty of the Wilderness. Truth be told most are terrified to be alone in the wilderness for even one night, let alone weeks or months.

    They want to start at the top......they all want to be Joe Want.........but without the work. Just because you kill something does not make you a hunter, does not make you an Outdoors-man, does not entitle one to respect. What is interesting about these hunter forums, is that people think they can raise their perceived entitlement to respect, by attacking the Masters......like Joe Want. They run off the very men who could teach them, who want to help them. Sad very sad.

    Dont beat around the bush AGL, tell us how you really feel!!!!

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    READ........Page 18 & 19 & 20 You will find no better answer. (And remember that he is referencing, the last quarter of the 1800's)

    http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/scouting2cont.pdf

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Here's what I do: I use a simple 4A reticle in all my scopes, and I know that the opening in my 4A reticle subtends 140 centimeters at 100 meters (or 55 inches at about 100 yards). Therefore, if I range a bull at about 100 yards and his antler width fills the opening in my reticle....bang. If I range a bull at 200 yards and the width of his gear equals half my reticle opening...bang. If I range a bull at 50 yards and half his headgear with equals the full width of my reticle opening...bang.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It
    #Resist

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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Here's what I do: I use a simple 4A reticle in all my scopes, and I know that the opening in my 4A reticle subtends 140 centimeters at 100 meters (or 55 inches at about 100 yards). Therefore, if I range a bull at about 100 yards and his antler width fills the opening in my reticle....bang. If I range a bull at 200 yards and the width of his gear equals half my reticle opening...bang. If I range a bull at 50 yards and half his headgear with equals the full width of my reticle opening...bang.
    I had a feeling you were going somewhere with this. Good idea. I wish I had my gear that dialed in. Only problem I see with your method is using your rifle scope to judge game. Some might disagree with me, but I don't like to do this because you never know when your gun could go off accidentally. Although I think you have an ingenious idea. Perhaps using this method in a similar way with a rangefinder would be better.

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    Member brule's Avatar
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    I bought a leupold rangefinder back in 2011 that had a feature called trophy scale. It's used to measure widths from 10-60". My father and I did extensive testing at ranges from 50-400 yards with various sized racks, it is extremely accurate. Unfortunately they have since discontinued this model.
    "One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted"
    Jose Ortega y Gasset, Meditations on Hunting.

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    Member 4merguide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brule View Post
    I bought a leupold rangefinder back in 2011 that had a feature called trophy scale. It's used to measure widths from 10-60". My father and I did extensive testing at ranges from 50-400 yards with various sized racks, it is extremely accurate. Unfortunately they have since discontinued this model.
    I'm pretty sure some company has the same type of thing, Trophy scale" in a rifle scope.....
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

  9. #9

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    First measure the distance using the vertical bar, and then the horizontal bar to measure the width. The 5" circle could also be used to measure Mt. Goat Horns. Nice reticle and available on the new VX-6 (1-6X) 30mm tube, also has the new "Multi-Gun" feature. While it retails for $1,600.-- it can be bought for about half that.

    The CM-R2 reticle is comprised of a 0.5 MOA dot surrounded by a 5.0 MOA circle for a perfect combination of precision and speed. The harsh marks on the horizontal stadia can be used for leading targets moving at 5, 10 and 15 mph respectively. The tic marks on the vertical stadia serve a dual purpose, allowing the user to quickly estimate the distance to 18" targets while serving as precise holdover points for targets between 300 and 900 meters.



    https://www.leupold.com/wp-content/u...e-41-large.png
    https://www.leupold.com/reticles/cm-r2-illuminated/

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    "Binoculars are for glassing & spotting.
    Spotting scope is for judging, evaluating, observing, and can be used for spotting.

    Using your high power rifle scope as a way to avoid either of the above can get you shot at. Or maybe killed.

    Yep, I have shot at sheep hunters, (no not to hit them). If someone is in a seated position, wrapped up in the sling, elbows on his knees, looking through his variable hi-powered rifle scope, mounted on a magnum rifle, and it is pointed right at me.

    Remember that firearms safety rule, yea the one about don't point the firearm at something, unless you plan to shoot. Well the guy your aiming at knows the same rule.

    Your rifle scope is NOT a substitute of BINOCULARS. The life you save may be your own........"

    AGL4Now, was going to say something but remembered you said something close to it yourself...


    If one young hunter say's, "Wow. I never looked at it that way, I better be careful using the rifle scope for spotting". Then I'll be content with the thread. -AGL4now

    Wish granted..... how many people walk out with a set of moose antlers on there back, in camo, near trees. Already nervous about walking with one small antler for scraping in the field.

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Might be a challenging distinction, but I'm in no way advocating using a rifle scope for glassing or spotting; it's a terrible tool for that job, and not what this thread is about. But a rifle scope can be used to pretty accurately measure antlers to ensure legality before pulling the trigger. In the same manner, a rifle scope can be used to judge distance of a target of known size as well. It's a skill worth learning.

    Anyone have any other tricks for measuring head gear, without guessing? Let's hear 'em.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It
    #Resist

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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Here's what I do: I use a simple 4A reticle in all my scopes, and I know that the opening in my 4A reticle subtends 140 centimeters at 100 meters (or 55 inches at about 100 yards). Therefore, if I range a bull at about 100 yards and his antler width fills the opening in my reticle....bang. If I range a bull at 200 yards and the width of his gear equals half my reticle opening...bang. If I range a bull at 50 yards and half his headgear with equals the full width of my reticle opening...bang.

    This is exactly what I did to confidently take a 51" bull a few days ago. My reticle theoretically subtends 50" at 52 yards per magnification level, so when we ranged the moose at ~180, I set the scope at 3x and knew if the antlers spanned over those subtends, it was over 50". In hindsight, I should have verified the exact relationship with a 50" object and lasered ranges before the hunt instead of relying on the scope's magnification accuracy and a smart phone app's information on my reticle, but I was lucky and it worked well enough. I'm not sure if we would have come away with a moose if I didn't have that technique.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Here's what I do: I use a simple 4A reticle in all my scopes, and I know that the opening in my 4A reticle subtends 140 centimeters at 100 meters (or 55 inches at about 100 yards). Therefore, if I range a bull at about 100 yards and his antler width fills the opening in my reticle....bang. If I range a bull at 200 yards and the width of his gear equals half my reticle opening...bang. If I range a bull at 50 yards and half his headgear with equals the full width of my reticle opening...bang.
    This is right. Its a **** good way to judge in the field and doesn't lie.

    Its not a good way to spot or glass, but once there are horns out there.. the scope gets on it. This is the most accurate method available... IMO.

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    Member c6 batmobile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brule View Post
    I bought a leupold rangefinder back in 2011 that had a feature called trophy scale. It's used to measure widths from 10-60". My father and I did extensive testing at ranges from 50-400 yards with various sized racks, it is extremely accurate. Unfortunately they have since discontinued this model.
    I believe it is still available to purchase through special order. You have to call and tell them you want the trophy scale on your range finder. A buddy picked one up last year. I am hoping to do the same after I save enough nickels.
    Makin fur fins and feathers fly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Might be a challenging distinction, but I'm in no way advocating using a rifle scope for glassing or spotting; it's a terrible tool for that job, and not what this thread is about. But a rifle scope can be used to pretty accurately measure antlers to ensure legality before pulling the trigger. In the same manner, a rifle scope can be used to judge distance of a target of known size as well. It's a skill worth learning.

    Anyone have any other tricks for measuring head gear, without guessing? Let's hear 'em.
    If a guy can't judge size he should hunt an any Bull area or count brow tines.

    Always keep your gun pointed in a safe direction.

    Be sure of your target and beyond.

    A firearm should not be pointed at an animal UNTIL you have determined it is legal and safe to shoot.

    For me, this is a zero tolerance issue. A rifle scope is for killin not for determining if your target is your intended target.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and donít have one, youíll probably never need one again

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post

    A firearm should not be pointed at an animal UNTIL you have determined it is legal and safe to shoot.

    For me, this is a zero tolerance issue. A rifle scope is for killin not for determining if your target is your intended target.

    I respect your opinion. It all comes down to personal risk assessment. There's risk in field judging with the rule of 8 or 9 or 10, etc. There's risk in simply being out there in the elements. Precautions like the safety lever and keeping the finger off the trigger until ready to shoot are, for me and in my opinion, enough to look through a scope at what I think is over 50" to gain a justifiable reason to bet on it or let it go. Like any tool (or technique), you must be smarter than it, to use.

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    Member cod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    A firearm should not be pointed at an animal UNTIL you have determined it is legal and safe to shoot.
    For me, this is a zero tolerance issue. A rifle scope is for killin not for determining if your target is your intended target.

    If if thar works for U, cool.
    But in my opinion, if a guy can't point his rifle at an animal (or anything else for that matter) and NOT ACCIDENTLY pull the trigger, he shouldn't even be out hunting.
    Your sarcasm is way, waaaayyyyyyyy more sarcastic than mine!

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    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushwhack Jack View Post
    I had a feeling you were going somewhere with this. Good idea. I wish I had my gear that dialed in. Only problem I see with your method is using your rifle scope to judge game. Some might disagree with me, but I don't like to do this because you never know when your gun could go off accidentally. Although I think you have an ingenious idea. Perhaps using this method in a similar way with a rangefinder would be better.
    You rifle should never ever go off accidentally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cod View Post
    If if thar works for U, cool.
    But in my opinion, if a guy can't point his rifle at an animal (or anything else for that matter) and NOT ACCIDENTLY pull the trigger, he shouldn't even be out hunting.
    You totally missed my point. Why in the heck would you even be pointing your rifle at something you don't intend to shoot?! If you haven't determined the critter is legal before that point then you have no business even hunting!

    What about bow hunters, pistol hunters, open sight rifle hunters!?

    If you can't tell if a critter is legal without a rifle scope then you need to bone up on your hunting skills.

    This is asinine!

    Regarding pointing your rifle at "anything else for that matter".... are you freakin serious!! What "anything else" would that be? Your firearm should NEVER be pointed intentionally at anything you don't intend to shoot!

    Some of you guys need to go back and relearn basic gun safety 101 and take Basic Hunters Education.

    I have zero tolerance for this kind of irresponsible, asinine, dangerous, thoughtless use of firearms.

    flame on
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and donít have one, youíll probably never need one again

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    Member cod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    Why in the heck would you even be pointing your rifle at something you don't intend to shoot?!
    This is asinine!
    Regarding pointing your rifle at "anything else for that matter".... are you freakin serious!! What "anything else" would that be? Your firearm should NEVER be pointed intentionally at anything you don't intend to shoot!
    Some of you guys need to go back and relearn basic gun safety 101 and take Basic Hunters Education.
    I have zero tolerance for this kind of irresponsible, asinine, dangerous, thoughtless use of firearms.
    flame on
    I hate a dispute against a legend but I suggest you go check your rifles right this instant. I guarantee YOUR rifles are POINTING AT something you don't intend to shoot. Many of mine currently have loaded magazines and I may even have one ( or two) that is chambered.
    But hey, I don't wear seat belts, pfd's, bicycle helmets and lots of other horrible societal no-no's.
    Whats your rifle pointing at now???
    Your sarcasm is way, waaaayyyyyyyy more sarcastic than mine!

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