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Thread: Senator Murkowski speech to Seattle

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    Default Senator Murkowski speech to Seattle

    Ran across this one while looking into our leaders connections with commercial fishing:

    https://www.murkowski.senate.gov/pre...er-of-commerce

    Hardly new news, but Lisa does point out that:

    "Puget Sound residents operate close to 1,000 commercial fishing vessels in Alaska"

    and

    “Puget Sound is home to 36 processing companies that accounted for 82 percent of total first wholesale value of Alaska seafood production in 2013.”

    So 82% of the first wholesale valve of our seafood doesn't even get processed in Alaska - much of it is probably not taxed since it isn't landed. (I need to look back and see what number is used for the billions of value quoted for Alaska seafood - raw fish, wholesale, or retail.) And remember that the majority of those involved in seafood processing in Alaska are aliens - so we don't see that money either!

    So while seafood may be a huge economic engine as claimed by some, it would appear that most of the horse-power hits the ground in Seattle and other places - not Alaska.

    While I'm at it, I'll try to find how much the seafood industry pays in taxes in Washington state. I'd guess it is magnitudes more than what is paid here in Alaska.

    We should do better!
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    If you were suggesting that we should seek ways to ensure that commercial fishing permits and money stay in-state as much as possible, I would agree with you.

    But you are not suggesting that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    We should do better!
    Can't disagree with that sentiment. The sad reality is that Alaska is viewed and treated by the extractive oil, mining, fishing, logging and tourism industries as a third-world territory, the resources of which should be free for the pillaging. And many of the road system urban center dwellers who call themselves Alaskans, but came here to be employees of one of those industries, seem to go out of their way to live up to that characterization, sucking up, bending over, and giving our resources away for just a wink and a kiss.
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    Default urban & rural

    I think the quick buck rape and pillage mentality cuts across all of Alaska.

    While the urban road system dwellers obviously live off the big companies, those in the rural areas can be even more dependent. How many rural residents would stick around if the Permanent Fund goes away for example? And those in rural areas depend on the urban folks for all sorts of subsidized services like communications, mail, medical etc. - trickle down dependency on the big companies if you will.

    Shipping out raw materials - be it oil, gas, seafood, minerals etc. - just ships the jobs out with the exports. We must demand more in-state industries and ship out the goods in a more finished state. In-state processing creates jobs although some are certainly better than others. Jobs in the oil and gas industries tend to pay very well, and unprocessed oil and gas are our biggest exports by far.


    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Can't disagree with that sentiment. The sad reality is that Alaska is viewed and treated by the extractive oil, mining, fishing, logging and tourism industries as a third-world territory, the resources of which should be free for the pillaging. And many of the road system urban center dwellers who call themselves Alaskans, but came here to be employees of one of those industries, seem to go out of their way to live up to that characterization, sucking up, bending over, and giving our resources away for just a wink and a kiss.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    While the urban road system dwellers obviously live off the big companies, those in the rural areas can be even more dependent. How many rural residents would stick around if the Permanent Fund goes away for example? And those in rural areas depend on the urban folks for all sorts of subsidized services like communications, mail, medical etc. - trickle down dependency on the big companies if you will.
    I think my last post defines the extent to which you and I see eye to eye. Rural/bush dwelling Alaskans were here long before the pipeline, the PFD, and all the sprawling urban blight that followed. They were here long, long before fat arrogant patriarchal minded white people showed up. Long before some friggin 0.1%er floated the idea of "trickle-down economics". And they will still be here long after the PFD is gone and we've all gone back to paying taxes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    I think the quick buck rape and pillage mentality cuts across all of Alaska.

    While the urban road system dwellers obviously live off the big companies, those in the rural areas can be even more dependent. How many rural residents would stick around if the Permanent Fund goes away for example? And those in rural areas depend on the urban folks for all sorts of subsidized services like communications, mail, medical etc. - trickle down dependency on the big companies if you will.

    Shipping out raw materials - be it oil, gas, seafood, minerals etc. - just ships the jobs out with the exports. We must demand more in-state industries and ship out the goods in a more finished state. In-state processing creates jobs although some are certainly better than others. Jobs in the oil and gas industries tend to pay very well, and unprocessed oil and gas are our biggest exports by far.
    You find most big companies are rape and pillage. They in turn pay for those in government who push for no restrictions to rape and pillage. We lose every time. In my neck of the woods, no stone is left unturned by these folks. They even hired the ex BP oil spin doctor to head up the state department on environment. Yep, I won't point fingers at which party is owned since teddy by big business.......
    "Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science"

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    Other than the stone true age level peoples, rural mankind has always depended on the urban folks for their very existence.

    Metal made the original difference. Tools, cooking utensils, weapons etc. - all made by the urban guys for the "self sufficient" rural guys.

    Later came other "needs" like medicine, clothing, transportation, communications, fuel, special foods etc.

    The truly self-sufficient stone age life style was brutal - hence the low populations of the native peoples. Among other things famine took its toll; metal and raising crops & storing food was a gift of the urban guys i.e. modern civilization.

    Urban sprawl isn't nice but it sure beats stone age living.




    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    I think my last post defines the extent to which you and I see eye to eye. Rural/bush dwelling Alaskans were here long before the pipeline, the PFD, and all the sprawling urban blight that followed. They were here long, long before fat arrogant patriarchal minded white people showed up. Long before some friggin 0.1%er floated the idea of "trickle-down economics". And they will still be here long after the PFD is gone and we've all gone back to paying taxes.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Nice try, tvf; Alaska wasn't living in the stone age before the Texans showed up here with an Okie under each arm and Los Anchoragua began it's malignant sprawl to the North. And we wouldn't be living in the stone age if y'all left.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
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    Default still dependent..

    The Alaskan rural folks' total dependency on the urban folks was here before the oil boom and will continue if the Anchorites left.

    From basic tools made of steel to transportation, clothing, medicine, food, communications, firearms and ammunition, pots and pans, boots, fishing equipment - both sport and commercial, health care etc. etc. .. the list goes on and on.

    "Self sufficient" is a catchy term but in reality it can only exist in a stone age culture, and even there the folks had to band together to survive.

    The BLM studied the subsistence folks in Alaska and determined that only around 30% of their food was harvested from nature. The majority came from outside sources. It wasn't in the study, but the percentage of funds to be "self sufficient" was probably closer to 100% from outside sources - rural welfare of sorts.

    So much for being "self sufficient". Thank an urban folk the next time you run into one for your very existence. . Costco and Sam's Club would be a good opportunity - those stores will be jammed next month with all the "self sufficient" rural folks coming in to stock up spending their Permanent Fund money.

    Whether Alaska was better off before the oil boom is another topic. The myth of being "self sufficient" is pretty obvious.



    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Nice try, tvf; Alaska wasn't living in the stone age before the Texans showed up here with an Okie under each arm and Los Anchoragua began it's malignant sprawl to the North. And we wouldn't be living in the stone age if y'all left.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    The Alaskan rural folks' total dependency on the urban folks was here before the oil boom and will continue if the Anchorites left.

    From basic tools made of steel to transportation, clothing, medicine, food, communications, firearms and ammunition, pots and pans, boots, fishing equipment - both sport and commercial, health care etc. etc. .. the list goes on and on.

    "Self sufficient" is a catchy term but in reality it can only exist in a stone age culture, and even there the folks had to band together to survive.

    The BLM studied the subsistence folks in Alaska and determined that only around 30% of their food was harvested from nature. The majority came from outside sources. It wasn't in the study, but the percentage of funds to be "self sufficient" was probably closer to 100% from outside sources - rural welfare of sorts.

    So much for being "self sufficient". Thank an urban folk the next time you run into one for your very existence. . Costco and Sam's Club would be a good opportunity - those stores will be jammed next month with all the "self sufficient" rural folks coming in to stock up spending their Permanent Fund money.

    Whether Alaska was better off before the oil boom is another topic. The myth of being "self sufficient" is pretty obvious.
    You're arrogance never ceases to amaze me TV. I'm sure you really do think every rural resident should just line up and thank you and every other city dweller over and over again for allowing them to live

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    Thank an urban folk the next time you run into one for your very existence.
    Now you want us to thank the 1,000 commercial fishing vessels and 36 processing companies from urban Puget Sound, with their quick-buck rape and pillage mentality and their urban fishing technologies?

    What next.

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    Default just factual..

    The arrogance of those who proclaim to enjoy "self sufficient" living and the so called "rural" life independent of the city dwellers are ones who should be called out.

    I was simply pointing out what all those "self sufficient" and "subsistence" folks really owe the urban folks they hate so much and look down on for creating urban sprawl etc. For indeed, they owe their very existence on all those urban folks they despise and feel that they are so far above. If all the urban guys disappeared they would be close behind as they ran out of fuel for their chain saws, 4 wheelers, and snow machines as well as food.

    And just wait until one their family gets sick or seriously hurt and they need the medical assistance of those hated urban dwellers. Suddenly all the pride of "self-sufficient" goes out the window as they call for a medical evacuation paid for most likely by those same hated urban folks.

    And I just heard Gov. Walker on the radio this morning remark that Alaska imports 98% of its food. Kinda puts the whole concept of self-sufficient in a true perspective.

    No I'm not arrogant, and I don't live in Anchorage or the valley either.



    Quote Originally Posted by hoose35 View Post
    You're arrogance never ceases to amaze me TV. I'm sure you really do think every rural resident should just line up and thank you and every other city dweller over and over again for allowing them to live

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    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    The arrogance of those who proclaim to enjoy "self sufficient" living and the so called "rural" life independent of the city dwellers are ones who should be called out.

    I was simply pointing out what all those "self sufficient" and "subsistence" folks really owe the urban folks they hate so much and look down on for creating urban sprawl etc. For indeed, they owe their very existence on all those urban folks they despise and feel that they are so far above. If all the urban guys disappeared they would be close behind as they ran out of fuel for their chain saws, 4 wheelers, and snow machines as well as food.

    And just wait until one their family gets sick or seriously hurt and they need the medical assistance of those hated urban dwellers. Suddenly all the pride of "self-sufficient" goes out the window as they call for a medical evacuation paid for most likely by those same hated urban folks.

    And I just heard Gov. Walker on the radio this morning remark that Alaska imports 98% of its food. Kinda puts the whole concept of self-sufficient in a true perspective.

    No I'm not arrogant, and I don't live in Anchorage or the valley either.
    Ok, you're right, you aren't arrogant, because you say so,lmao

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    The arrogance of those who proclaim to enjoy "self sufficient" living and the so called "rural" life independent of the city dwellers are ones who should be called out.

    I was simply pointing out what all those "self sufficient" and "subsistence" folks really owe the urban folks they hate so much and look down on for creating urban sprawl etc. For indeed, they owe their very existence on all those urban folks they despise and feel that they are so far above. If all the urban guys disappeared they would be close behind as they ran out of fuel for their chain saws, 4 wheelers, and snow machines as well as food.

    And just wait until one their family gets sick or seriously hurt and they need the medical assistance of those hated urban dwellers. Suddenly all the pride of "self-sufficient" goes out the window as they call for a medical evacuation paid for most likely by those same hated urban folks.

    And I just heard Gov. Walker on the radio this morning remark that Alaska imports 98% of its food. Kinda puts the whole concept of self-sufficient in a true perspective.

    No I'm not arrogant, and I don't live in Anchorage or the valley either.
    Further more, an arrogant person isn't capable of making the distinction of whether or not they are arrogant because they obviously think they are better than others, so I doesn't surprise me you claim to not be arrogant

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    The arrogance of those who proclaim to enjoy "self sufficient" living and the so called "rural" life independent of the city dwellers are ones who should be called out.

    I was simply pointing out what all those "self sufficient" and "subsistence" folks really owe the urban folks they hate so much and look down on for creating urban sprawl etc. For indeed, they owe their very existence on all those urban folks they despise and feel that they are so far above. If all the urban guys disappeared they would be close behind as they ran out of fuel for their chain saws, 4 wheelers, and snow machines as well as food.

    And just wait until one their family gets sick or seriously hurt and they need the medical assistance of those hated urban dwellers. Suddenly all the pride of "self-sufficient" goes out the window as they call for a medical evacuation paid for most likely by those same hated urban folks.

    And I just heard Gov. Walker on the radio this morning remark that Alaska imports 98% of its food. Kinda puts the whole concept of self-sufficient in a true perspective.

    No I'm not arrogant, and I don't live in Anchorage or the valley either.
    Who said you were an Anchorage or valley resident?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    No I'm not arrogant, and I don't live in Anchorage or the valley either.
    What?...After all the BS you just posted bashing rural folks, now you're saying you moved from Anchorage to a more rural area?

    Say it ain't so!

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    I did - quite some time ago when I lived in Anchorage.

    Quote Originally Posted by hoose35 View Post
    Who said you were an Anchorage or valley resident?

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    Default really?

    I'm not sure how stating that I am depend on others make me arrogant. I don't claim to be "self sufficient" like some in Alaska, my existence here - like everyone - is heavily dependent on the outside 48 and society as a whole. Civilization is like that!

    f it offend someone else to tell them that they aren't really "self sufficient" - too bad - someone needs to burst their bubble. Many will find out in the next few years just how "self sufficient" they are when the state cuts out the permanent fund and many of the handouts that they rural folks depend on now. We are all going to have to tighten our belts, some more that others.

    As to arrogance - look at a lot of the post by the comm fish crowd telling the sport fishermen over and over that they are just poor fishermen, don't know how to fish etc. etc.


    Quote Originally Posted by hoose35 View Post
    Further more, an arrogant person isn't capable of making the distinction of whether or not they are arrogant because they obviously think they are better than others, so I doesn't surprise me you claim to not be arrogant

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    I think it's extremely arrogant and offensive to tell someone they owe their existence to someone else.

    It's also extremely arrogant and offensive to bash rural living - how some chose to live. Especially if the person saying it moved to a more-rural area themselves, and probably never lived a self-sufficient lifestyle in the first place. Especially if the person saying it is probably the last person qualified to say it . Not just arrogance, but hypocritical arrogance. I guess some just have to hate on everything - perhaps as a way to lift themselves up.

    FYI, some fishermen ARE poor anglers - for example those anglers who sit on their computer complaining as the fish are swimming by. That is an observation of their fishing skill, not a bashing of their existence or lifestyle.

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    Default simply factual

    It is a simple fact of life that we ALL owe our existence on many other people. None of us can exist as individuals; we are a civilized society. There are apparently some remote tribes living in the jungles that are pretty self sufficient as tribes, but even then they depend on each other as a group, and they are still living in the stone age.

    I'm not bashing rural living and never have. If someone can live in the bush and pay their own way without having to live off the urban folks I have absolutely no problem with that all - God bless 'em ; I wish I was that fortunate And by paying their own way I expect - as I do of everyone that is physically and mentally able - to make some contribution to the benefits of civilization that all of us utilize.

    But the majority of the rural folks pay no taxes - based on the average rural incomes. But if one of their family gets hurt or sick they go screaming for help. Likewise, they want mail service, internet, cell phones, electricity etc. etc. And it is not a racial thing - my comments apply to all rural folks.

    Your comment about one sitting on the computer rather than catching the fish swimming making one a poor fisherman is not a logical deduction - the two are not related. Your logic is simply wrong - using computer usage to judge one's fishing skills is not a rationale conclusion.

    BTW, since your comment was quite obviously directed at me - I was catching silvers and trout in the Russian River and upper Kenai River this past weekend. Enjoyed eating one last night.


    Quote Originally Posted by Funstastic View Post
    I think it's extremely arrogant and offensive to tell someone they owe their existence to someone else.

    It's also extremely arrogant and offensive to bash rural living - how some chose to live. Especially if the person saying it moved to a more-rural area themselves, and probably never lived a self-sufficient lifestyle in the first place. Especially if the person saying it is probably the last person qualified to say it . Not just arrogance, but hypocritical arrogance. I guess some just have to hate on everything - perhaps as a way to lift themselves up.

    FYI, some fishermen ARE poor anglers - for example those anglers who sit on their computer complaining as the fish are swimming by. That is an observation of their fishing skill, not a bashing of their existence or lifestyle.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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