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Thread: Community Harvest Moose, and other...

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    Default Community Harvest Moose, and other...

    I would like to hear from you all about the subject of Community Harvest Situation in Unit 13. The Federal regs should be included with this thread also. I would hope that Fish/game/and Wildlife will follow this thread. I, and many others that live 50 percent, and full time at Lake Louise have not seen any legal moose in years that are legal during the state hunt. The community harvest starts two weeks prior to the state hunt. Those that do hunt up there, come from outlying communities, and drive the road daily for any bull. Fish and game say the moose population is doing good? I hope someone wakes up to the music being played in the last couple years, because the moose population is going to crash due to poor management again. History will repeat it self, very soon.
    The big question is shut it down, or let it continue?
    Please keep this civil a conversation, thank you!

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    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    what's odd about the "community" harvest is that most regs are set up to limit success and opportunity with restricted seasons and legal animal qualifications. Which is pretty par for a management plan. The CH hunts are set up to increase opportunity over current established moose seasons/regulations. Which would generally be outside of a management plan and more in line with a political agenda.
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    Member Carlak2fl's Avatar
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    If I understand it correctly, the premise is "get 25 people to sign up, and you can then get 8 bulls to divide amongst yourselves." I was also told, that if they shoot a "legal" bull (spike/ fork or 50/4) like the rest of us, that it DOES NOT count against their 8 bull quota. SO basically it is a get out of jail free card. I think it is ridiculous, and unfair to the actual "residents" in that unit. Seems like Claude (Denalihunter) who spends 365 days in the unit, watching moose at 2 or 3 years old never reach maturity. They are shot as 30" or 40" or tweeners, simply because others aren't forced to play by the same rules. I believe it was the native corporations pushing for a more traditional style of hunt, and fish and game obliged. However they offered the same "style" to anyone who met the criteria...... Its a shame..... And I suppose for those that truly rely on the moose meat for a subsistence lifestyle, i get it. But thats a hard sale as well, when they are towing up 30k campers, with 25k toys behind their 50k truck. My vote is to do away with the community hunt, level the playing field for all, and give the moose a chance.
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    I disagree with the CH permit program. People with 100k invested in hunting or play go out and shoot legal bills before the normal hunter can even start to hunt. That takes away from the normal hunter! I say do away with the CH permits and level the playing field for everyone. If that's done the moose population will rise!

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    Member mjm316's Avatar
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    SHUT IT DOWN! Make it a level playing field for all. If it's not shut down there needs to be some major tweaks in the qualification to do such a hunt. As said before people driving around in 50k rigs with all the toys do not need this "subsistence" style hunt.
    Personally I've been asked to join a community for this hunt and turned the offer down because it doesn't sit well with me. My .02
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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    For those who aren't in favor of the community harvest hunt, if this comes up before the Board of Game again, be there in person to testify! Having these discussions on here has some value, but it is all for naught if folks don't testify before the BOG in person or at least in writing.

  7. #7

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    Well.............this appears to an Anchorage Hunter's problem. I think that when (Note: When not "IF") a few hundred thousand more humans moved to the Greater Los'Anchorage Metropolitan Area, this big problem will be dwarfed by bigger hunter problems. The problem is HUMANS. Too many humans.

    There is only one way to deal with this on a personal level..........Find and Purchase a property as far from massive city centers as possible. Then move there as soon as possible. Because no matter how you view it Alaska is going to get more and more sucky. The future of sport fishing SUCKY, the future of Hunting super SUCKY.

    As huge as ALASKA is........it is currently over populated by humans. And hundreds of thousands more are coming.

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    Well.............this appears to an Anchorage Hunter's problem.

    There is only one way to deal with this on a personal level..........Find and Purchase a property as far from massive city centers as possible. Then move there as soon as possible.
    I think you're wrong on that. There are plenty of people who live in Unit 13 who have had their remote moose spots overrun by community harvest hunters prior to the general season.

    We're in this boat together, AGL. Your little slice of habitat isn't immune to the pressures from other hunters, as you're well aware. The same is true for every corner of Alaska. There is a LOT of excellent hunting and fishing out there and the future is not at all the doom that you foresee, but there are some issues to deal with and we need to look at such issues with sober thought and judgement rather than being Chicken Little about it while assuming that running into the sticks will somehow solve the problem. My opinion, of course...and it's worth about what you paid for it.

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    I could not more strongly agree that this hunt must be shutdown as soon as possible and further, I second the statement that I hope this thread gets big enough fast enough for the BOG at ADF&G to sit up and take notice. I'm sure this hot button topic will get many erhical Alaskan fair chase hunters who merely read these forums, to actually come forth in a unified overwhelming voice of support to STOP COMMUMITY HUNTS NOW!!!!

  10. #10

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    Well..........my experience with Alaska, is that the quality of all things wilderness related, is lower today than it was 47 years ago. And I very much doubt it will massively improve over the next 47 years (Unless the human population drops).

    Funny that people see clearly that excessive four legged predators can be a problem in Alaska, and there-fore need to be controlled and managed. Yet, we are blind to the impact of two legged predators.



    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    ........... There is a LOT of excellent hunting and fishing out there and the future is not at all the doom that you foresee, but there are some issues to deal with and we need to look at such issues with sober thought and judgement rather than being Chicken Little about it while assuming that running into the sticks will somehow solve the problem. My opinion, of course...and it's worth about what you paid for it.

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    Member BIGAKSTUFF's Avatar
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    I've voiced my opinion on the shammockery of a hunt many times. Its a 10 day headstart with a get out of jail free card if what you end up dropping wasn't legal by unit 13 definitions. Bios may say that the moose population is healthy as a whole in unit 13, but they are not taking into account that entire drainages, trail systems and accessible areas are being decimated by these 'groups' all hunting the same place together and at once. Lets say you have a favorite creek drainage with a few legal bulls that you know of in it and a few sub legals hanging around. A group of 25 can come into that drainage and literally kill everything that has an antler on it. Drainage will take a few years to recover, if at all, because now the group has found a 'hot spot' and returns every year blasting all the new spike/forks and tweener bulls long before they will ever see 50. You enter the drainage on opening day to find gut piles and bear crap, and that's it.

    SHUT IT DOWN. Its only a matter of time before EVERYONE does this, more and more are doing it every year. When does it end? When there are more community hunters than harvest tag holders? This year I hunted my DC485 tag on the 20th of August and saw more community moose hunters than caribou hunters! Ridiculous
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    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
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    BigAKstuff is spot on. Our favorite area has been completely decimated. There isn't a single bull left in the area come Sep 1...has been this way for 4 years now, and now you would be lucky to see any moose whatsoever.

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    The unit 13 hunt isn't the only one. There are those on the peninsula as well. Different names and a little different flavor, but still the same bottom line. You can live in Ninilchik. Drive your motorhome to Fred Meyer or Safeway in Soldotna. Stock up on groceries and booze for your hunt. Drive out to Swanson River Road and set up camp. 10 days before locals are allowed to hunt because if you live in Ninilchik, Cooper Landing and other towns you are considered rural. Or if you live in Seldovia, You load up on the Ferry and come to town for your rural hunt. I get it. You live rural and off the grid, one should be able to open the door and shoot whats in your backyard to fill the freezer when it's empty. And whenever it's empty regarless of what the calendar says. And only harvest what you need to survive. But how to put this into writing and into law. That is always the tough part. And there is always that one group of folks that think they should be entitled to their share of the pie....

    Agl is right to a very large degree. The 2 legged predators are the deadliest. And one of the only animals on this planet that prey on their own kind.

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    Any of you complainers been to a BoG meeting? Submitted any proposals? Been to the Fed Subsist Board meeting (which are always in Anch)? Ever been to an AC meeting?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjm316 View Post
    SHUT IT DOWN! Make it a level playing field for all. If it's not shut down there needs to be some major tweaks in the qualification to do such a hunt. As said before people driving around in 50k rigs with all the toys do not need this "subsistence" style hunt.
    Personally I've been asked to join a community for this hunt and turned the offer down because it doesn't sit well with me. My .02

    These hunts are not set up with the consideration of what your income level is. Its the truck dealer and atv dealers fault if you start talking about what it costs for trucks and atvs these days. So theoretically if I go out and buy a piece of junk truck and a old used 4 wheeler it would look better to you and you would think I need the meat to provide for my family. I don't agree with these hunts so don't get me wrong but lets leave the what it costs each person out of it. If they continue with these hunts I will go into a nursing home and get 24 senior citizen to fill out a application....

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    Member mjm316's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 338MUZZLEBREAK View Post
    These hunts are not set up with the consideration of what your income level is. Its the truck dealer and atv dealers fault if you start talking about what it costs for trucks and atvs these days. So theoretically if I go out and buy a piece of junk truck and a old used 4 wheeler it would look better to you and you would think I need the meat to provide for my family. I don't agree with these hunts so don't get me wrong but lets leave the what it costs each person out of it. If they continue with these hunts I will go into a nursing home and get 24 senior citizen to fill out a application....
    I never said it was based on income. I simply stated I have seen multiple $50k rigs out hunting on the Denali hwy and other areas with these permits. Typically you won't find these type of rigs coming out of Manley or Cantwell or Hope or other rural area of AK. They are coming out of ANC and FBKS and their immediate surrounding areas. And in my opinion these are not the "communities" that this was originally intended for.
    Tomorrow isn't promised. "Never delay kissing a pretty girl or opening a bottle of whiskey." E. Hemingway

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    If you can't beat em, join em. If enough people sign up for community/group hunts, they will shut it down eventually. I don't know the exact rules to it but maybe you could get the folks on the street corners in ANC with the cardboard placards to sign up with the group hunt to get the required amount of names.

  18. #18

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    I am not a fan of this hunt. I know of a couple different groups that take part and shoot 2-3 bulls (mostly within the normal legal requirements) in the first day or two. I have even been asked to join their "community" but just think it is unfair to the other hunters (new and old) that have compete with the others in Unit 13. Also, I see it as damaging to the moose population.

    As said above, we all need to take more action than just complaining on a forum. Contact the applicable people and attend the meetings. The more people the better.

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    I had one of my friends try to get me to sign up. I refused because I'm not interested in sharing my moose with 24 other people or being in a community with that many other people. I think the idea was that people in that area in places like Gakona, Gulkana, Kenny Lake, etc. would do it and sign up with a bunch of older people who couldn't or don't hunt and share some of the spoils with them. I think that it should be amended so that people have to live in the unit they're community hunting but ADFG doesn't really care about Alaska residency anyways, I just think those dudes going up there with 100k brand new motorhomes and 8 new four wheelers are a joke but if they've got the money they are welcome to do it. I think that it will get taken away in the next few years because it's going to be abused.

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    Member Queen of Kings's Avatar
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    It has already and is currently being abused!!

    Quote Originally Posted by acg515 View Post
    I had one of my friends try to get me to sign up. I refused because I'm not interested in sharing my moose with 24 other people or being in a community with that many other people. I think the idea was that people in that area in places like Gakona, Gulkana, Kenny Lake, etc. would do it and sign up with a bunch of older people who couldn't or don't hunt and share some of the spoils with them. I think that it should be amended so that people have to live in the unit they're community hunting but ADFG doesn't really care about Alaska residency anyways, I just think those dudes going up there with 100k brand new motorhomes and 8 new four wheelers are a joke but if they've got the money they are welcome to do it. I think that it will get taken away in the next few years because it's going to be abused.
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