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Thread: Ultra Light weight rifles?

  1. #41
    Member coop22250's Avatar
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    I know where a KS 7mm-08 700 is and a 308 KS model 7, but I donít like the feel of the KS stocks. I know they are good quality but the others just for me right. I just picked up a nice 260 with HS for my wife to shoot, after getting it I told her she was gonna have to keep shopping because Iím claiming that one. 140 partitions shoot like a dream out of that thing and I just made 10 mid range loads to test it and get it on paper. 3 shots in and they were hitting center ring

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by coop22250 View Post
    I know where a KS 7mm-08 700 is and a 308 KS model 7, but I donít like the feel of the KS stocks. I know they are good quality but the others just for me right. I just picked up a nice 260 with HS for my wife to shoot, after getting it I told her she was gonna have to keep shopping because Iím claiming that one. 140 partitions shoot like a dream out of that thing and I just made 10 mid range loads to test it and get it on paper. 3 shots in and they were hitting center ring
    The early KS had McMillan stocks. Later, they were Brown Precision. Some say at the end of the run, they might have been HS. The barrels/actions at first came from the Custom Shop. The early guns shot extremely well. If it is an early McMillan gun, you may want to reconsider......

  3. #43
    Member coop22250's Avatar
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    It is an early MCMILLAN 1987 to be exact. If I can get it for cheap Iíll buy it for an investment, Iíve shot them before and they didnít shoot any better than my 90ís 7ís. In all honestly I donít shoot long distances so my little 308 shooting 3/4-1/2Ē is all I need. If itís over 300 I just have to hunt harder. Iím with you on too short of barrels but over 22Ē I donít like using if thereís much alder busting. 20Ē is my ideal, steady enough, plenty of velocity for 300 yards. My new Model 7 is 300 wsm, 22Ē. The only new generation Rem I own. Nothing but problems. If I can get it fixed soon itís gonna be a boat anchor or complete custom job, just to make it shoot like the old ones did straight from the factory, maddening!

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by coop22250 View Post
    It is an early MCMILLAN 1987 to be exact. If I can get it for cheap Iíll buy it for an investment, Iíve shot them before and they didnít shoot any better than my 90ís 7ís. In all honestly I donít shoot long distances so my little 308 shooting 3/4-1/2Ē is all I need. If itís over 300 I just have to hunt harder. Iím with you on too short of barrels but over 22Ē I donít like using if thereís much alder busting. 20Ē is my ideal, steady enough, plenty of velocity for 300 yards. My new Model 7 is 300 wsm, 22Ē. The only new generation Rem I own. Nothing but problems. If I can get it fixed soon itís gonna be a boat anchor or complete custom job, just to make it shoot like the old ones did straight from the factory, maddening!
    Mine shoot really well. There is a growing market for the early KS guns.
    Regarding "alder busting"....I try to avoid it given my hearing loss. But, if I anticipate I will be hunting in an area of predominantly heavy brush, the short barrel Big Bores come out...and yes, they have the obligatory low power variable...

    It is tragic what happened to Remington in terms of QC (although they are now trying to do better)...I remember during the 70s and 80s most legitimate gunsmiths chose the Remington actions and sometimes stocks in their long distance rifles. Most people had reworked 700s/40Xs for semi-serious long range sniping. That was then, this is now!

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldfoot;1662057.

    I think it makes NO SENSE to shoot short, light weight barrels when climbing mountains. One is often winded, or, the wind is blowing a bit when presented with longish shots. Moderately heavy, longish barrels may weigh more (maybe one can leave the electronic gizmos behind or the monster shooting stick?) but are more steady and easier to hit with.
    To rationalize one does not lose foot pounds of energy at target/penetration by shortening a barrel is incorrect. To rationalize one does not lose lose a modicum of trajectory efficiency is also incorrect.
    My wildcats have 28" barrels. My hunting guns have 26" barrels except my big bores. The lightweight gun/short barrel craze is not my cup of tea!
    I agree. While there seems to be some exceptions with specific loads, in specific barrels, we can expect to lose velocity when we shorten a barrel. Sometimes, a lot.

    It could be enough to make a noticeable difference in trajectory. (ME calculations are not worth consideration.) BUT everything that is related to velocity changes

    My biggest objection to short barrels, is the certainty of increased muzzle blast. I've had short barrels on a couple of rifles, and the blast was a genuine issue with me. I can't understand why some folks act like it's a non-issue.

    It depends somewhat on the cartridge, as to how short a barrel I can get away with. For 30 30, 20" is great, even shorter. My 7mm Wby has 26". I love to have the blast way out there, away from my earballs.

    7mm RM is 24". My 280 Rem was rebarreled from 20" to 26 inches.

    I'm one who feels the recoil, and hears the blast, and Remembers, when taking shots on game. When sighting in and for most practice I use ear protection, but not with hunting shots, and I always notice the difference. I can't rationalize such things away.

    Short barrels are appealing. Sometimes, so appealing, any detriments are rationalized away.

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  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by z987k View Post
    I know this is an older thread, but a theme was the shorter 18" barrels and their impact on velocity.
    I recently bought a 18.5" Fieldcraft in 6.5CM. It took awhile to pull the trigger on such a short barrel and if I'd be happy with it. I also couldn't find much real world data with this gun and caliber combo, so.... here it is.

    I took it to the range recently and chronod it just to see. 6 round average was 2450fps un-suppressed and 2525 suppressed using Hornady ELD-X 143gr factory ammo. Hornady advertises 2700fps out of a 24" barrel.
    Thats right where I was with my 18" Barrett Fieldcraft rifle for factory ammo. I have also shot that 143 ELDX factory ammo in half a dozen 24" creedmoors for other buddies rifles and they all are between 2620-2650 with the factory ammo so don't feel like you're giving up all that much with the 18".

    In fact I was loading that 18" barrel fieldcraft with 147 elds at just over 2700 fps with handloads with is besting the 24" with factory ammo by a good amount. Yes I can get quite the velocity jump with the 24" as well when handloading but both stay well above minimum impact velocity for the bullets well beyond where I will shoot at game with them so I'll take the shorter/handier barrel.

  7. #47
    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by z987k View Post
    I took it to the range recently and chronod it just to see. 6 round average was 2450fps un-suppressed and 2525 suppressed using Hornady ELD-X 143gr factory ammo. Hornady advertises 2700fps out of a 24" barrel.
    If you reload, try the Hornady book max load for Superformance and 143ELDX. My 18" Barrett was clocking 2650 with it and getting 1/2MOA groups. Hard not to like that in such a handy rifle.
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldfoot View Post
    I think it makes NO SENSE to shoot short, light weight barrels when climbing mountains.

    Goat or sheep hunt much have ya?
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldfoot View Post
    One is often winded, or, the wind is blowing a bit when presented with longish shots.
    There's been exactly ONE time I've ever been winded when putting the bead on an animal in the mountains. Other than that, the sheep and goats I've hunted, I've had from many minutes, to hours before needing to squeeze the trigger. That being said though, I don't own a short barreled rifle. But, I totally understand why guys do when mountain hunting, when every single ounce matters as to how enjoyable the hunt can turn out. The last thing a guy needs when hauling out a ram and camp on his back for miles and miles is unnecessary weight.
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post
    [LEFT]Goat or sheep hunt much have ya?
    [COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana]
    There's been exactly ONE time I've ever been winded when putting the bead on an animal in the mountains. Other than that, the sheep and goats I've hunted, I've had from many minutes, to hours before needing to squeeze the trigger. That being said though, I don't own a short barreled rifle. But, I totally understand why guys do when mountain hunting, when every single ounce matters as to how enjoyable the hunt can turn out. The last thing a guy needs when hauling out a ram and camp on his back for miles and miles is unnecessary weight.
    Me thinks you took too many middle-age, overweight, wealthy non-residents sheep hunting
    Here is the deal: We have become SOFT and over rely upon gizmos. The sheep hunters I have seen, take tents when they don't have to, take all kinds of electronics up mountains, take MONSTER spotting scopes, take humongous shooting sticks, etc. etc. Yet, they think by saving a few ounces of rifle weight they are being smart.
    With unlimited time and resources (probably like some of your rich clients) one can repeatedly go back sheep hunting until one scores. But, the average guy will either hoof it or save his money for YEARS in order to afford a drop-off. When that time comes, it is better to optimize one's maximum range in terms of rifle performance. (Hmmm...I believe there is a longer carbon barrel alternative if weight is an issue)
    So, maybe, you can tell prospective sheep hunters to save ounces in the less important STUFF and not in the last few inches of barrel!
    And yes, I probably have hunted MORE than YOU solo up mountains!

  10. #50

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    One can also better hide flaws in general marksmanship with heavier rifles than lightweight ones as well so thatís also a plus for heavy rifles as well.

    But I'm also not going to go out of my way to seek out a heavier rifle or one with a longer barrel either. I am not one to shoot especially far so I don't need the long barrel to optimize performance so I am fine with the slower muzzle velocity and get "closer".

    Carbon barrel aren't ever gonna be as light as a similar length #1 or #2 contour barrel either so that is not an advantage.

  11. #51
    Member 4merguide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldfoot View Post
    Me thinks you took too many middle-age, overweight, wealthy non-residents sheep hunting
    Even though I was referring to my own personal hunts, if it were about when I was guiding your thinking couldn't be more wrong....
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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