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Thread: Odessy / Hawker SBS-J-16 battery after 2 1/2 years.

  1. #1
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    Default Odessy / Hawker SBS-J-16 battery after 2 1/2 years.

    I installed mine in Jan 2014 after buying it at Stoddards. After the first year I started to experience lower voltages and problems with enough starter rpm for a O-320 Lycoming engine. I thought it was my starter and I replaced the Bendix unit. This winter I had to continually remove the battery and put in on a slow charger. Now in the summer of 2016, it will not hold enough of a charge to start in the morning, even though I fly every couple of days. I have been hand starting the darn thing. It has now been on a rejuvenating type pulse charger overnight and it is still only accepting a 75% charge.Today will be day two on the pulse rejuvenator. OK for saving weight but I am not so sure about reliability. I heard a rumor that there was a bad batch of these batteries. Anyone else have issues???
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
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    Two solid days on a 2 amp charger straightened mine out. Mine had gotten low enough that the little alternator would not charge it. That was last winter and haven't had a problem since. Showed 12.9 volts or so last time I checked it (engine off). Same battery.

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    Member Akgramps's Avatar
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    I have run this same battery in a motorcycle, the original lasted almost 10 years, unheard of for a small battery. I know you pay more for a FAA certified battery. there may be some difference other than the price...?

    I have used Odyssey batteries elsewhere and have found them to give excellent service life. I have had several conversations (email) with Enersys concerning charging AGM batteries and what I have found out is they like and will take a higher voltage than a typical lead acid battery.

    In fact they do make a brand specific charger for these, what happens is they often do not get fully charged and they start to have sulfation, which will diminish the battery capacity. You can sometimes correct these by doing a "equalization charge". Essentially a charge at a higher voltage for a period of time to remove the sulfation from the plates.

    If you do this, you should monitor battery temp closely so you dont overheat the battery excessively, a sealed AGM battery can still vent if it gets hot enough, however you cannot replace any lost acid and it is no longer a sealed "any position battery".

    Perhaps the charging system is lacking in some way....?
    “Nothing worth doing is easy”
    TR

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    I've had great luck with those. When I bought my plane years ago, it had a j16 in it. it started the o-360 in the dead of winter, although a little slow. it must have had at least 5-6 years on it. a friend of mine gave me a j16 out of his 206, he went back to a concord. i ran his battery for 2 more years. i then wrecked my plane, gave that battery to another friend, he kept it on the shelf for over 2 more years, and is now running it in his 172, 0-360, no issues. Battery Specialist in anchorage have good knowledge of agms, I'd give them a call.

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    Well I had it on the rejuvenating charger gizmo for 48 hours. Then we drew it down some with a landing light and charged it back up in a few minutes. So MAYBE it will be ok now. I shall see.
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
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  6. #6

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    I have heard of some of them going bad early. Give Stoddards a call and see what they say. They are great people and will do all they can to make it work. You may be out of luck if Odessy won't cover it, but it is worth a try.
    DENNY

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    UPDATE:

    After 24 hours on a rejuvenating type charger, it would only go to 75%. Which was still better than the 25% I was charging in the plane. SO.... I left it on the pulse charger for another 24 hours.
    After a full 48 hours it said it was at 100%
    I then kept it in my truck for a couple days and checked it with a meter. It held 12.5 volts for two days.

    Then I re-installed it in the aircraft and it was able to start the engine after 24 hours. So I flew the plane every day for a couple days and it worked OK.
    HOWEVER::::: I then let the plane sit for two days without starting and the battery did not have enough juice for a full start. The little drain from the digital clock / volt meter, ( WHICH IS ONLY 13 Milli Amps ) drew it down to 11.2 volts over 48 hours. In the past it could go for weeks with no problem. A new battery is en-route.
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
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    What a pain in the ass...!

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    A new battery makes the most sense, they are excellent batteries however you can always get a bad one. Better to deal with it while on the ground. AGM batteries do have a different charging regime than a standard lead acid and improper charging can be the death of any battery.

    This is a reply to a email from Enersys concerning charging if anyone is interested.

    Thank you for contacting EnerSys/ODYSSEY.
    ODYSSEY batteries are an AGM Lead Acid battery however the TPPL (Thin Plate Pure Lead) technology requires that the batteries be charged at a higher amp than most batteries and maintained at a slightly higher voltage than other standard lead acid batteries on the market. They are also truly dual purpose batteries that can be used for both cranking and deep cycling. Due to the technology, proper charge maintenance is critical to maximizing the life and performance of the ODYSSEY battery. ODYSSEY Battery basics…
    Most conventional batteries are considered fully charged at 12.6-12.7V. The ODYSSEY TPPL AGM battery is not considered fully charged unless it has a resting voltage of at least 12.84V. The usable energy of the ODYSSEY battery is from 11.2V (0% state of charge) OCV to 12.84V OCV (Open Circuit Voltage should be checked 8 – 24 hours post charge with no loads). When the battery goes below 10.0V OCV it is over discharged and is getting into the chemical part of the battery and can cause permanent damage. At less than 10.0V the ODYSSEYlimited warranty deems the battery over-discharged due to abuse or neglect (usually unintentional). The ODYSSEY charger/maintainer or any approved maintainer can maintain the ODYSSEY battery indefinitely in or out of the application provided it has enough charging current to counteract the parasitic loads of the application. If the battery becomes over-discharged (below 11.0V OCV) then the sooner the battery can be fully charged the better. If the battery remains connected to the application during storage or extended periods of non-use, to prevent over-discharge and maintain the battery at a full state of charge, an ODYSSEY program approved maintainer would be required and/or disconnecting the battery prevent over discharge. There is a link to a list of ODYSSEY approved 12V chargers located on theODYSSEY website Charger/Ultimizer page for your reference.
    The list of approved 12V chargers is provided due to the many chargers that are programmed for the vast majority of batteries on the market that prefer low amp charging and lower float voltages that do not fully charge or maintain the ODYSSEY battery properly. The minimum recommended charging current for an ODYSSEY battery is 40% of the 10 hour amp hour rating of the battery for cyclic or deep discharge applications (for example about 25A for a single 62Ah rated PC1500 for example), a constant float voltage of 13.5-13.8V and no constant voltages exceeding 15.0V in any kind of de-sulfation/reconditioning/equalize mode. At greater than 15.0V the battery can overcharge, overheat, and/or go into thermal runaway. Maintaining any ODYSSEY battery at less than 13.5V will bring the battery down and maintain it in an undercharged condition causing sulfation and premature failure. This would not be considered a manufacturing defect failure.
    For seasonal applications (non-daily use applications that set for more than 3 days in a row frequently) regular use of an approved maintainer that meets the charge voltage requirements noted in the previous paragraph is highly recommended during the season and/or a disconnect switch. The preferred storage method is to fully charge the battery before storing and disconnect the battery from the application (shelf storage mode). Stored in or out of the application with no loads, the battery would not require charging for up to 2 years at 77°F or until it reaches 12.0V, whichever comes first. The self discharge rate increases significantly for temperatures above 25°C (77°F) and for every 10°C (18°F) temperature increase the storage time to recharge is decreased by half. Charge maintenance is critical to maximizing the life and performance of the battery. Freezing will not harm the battery and self discharge rates reduce significantly at colder temperatures.
    It is recommended that the ODYSSEY battery be charged if it is less than 12.65V (about 80% state of charge) when put into use as a cranking battery per the ODYSSEY Owner’s Manual (link provided on website Literature page for your reference). Most standard alternators are meant to top off a slightly discharged battery and maintain a fully charged battery. Most standard alternators/stators are not meant to be deep discharge recovery chargers and can become damaged if consistently used like one as well as not fully charging the battery with limited use. A battery discharged to below 80% capacity may not reach a full state of charge, regardless of how long you drive the vehicle using a standard alternator. Typical alternators only run at full amp output for a very short period of time before reaching its charging voltage and dropping into a very low amp trickle charge. Luckily enough, ODYSSEY batteries are very efficient at accepting high amp charging for quick charging.
    Low amp trickle “charging” a discharged ODYSSEY battery is very inefficient and also causes premature sulfation. With the use of a 25A or higher amp charger that does not exceed 15.0V, the PC1500 battery for example, should charge to a high state of charge (at least 85% SOC) then, an approved lower amp trickle maintenance charger should be able to complete charging process without prematurely sulfating the battery. The Cyclic Charge Voltage range printed on the top label of the battery is the recommended voltage at the battery from the applications charging system (alternator or stator). At less than 14.1V the battery may not be getting fully charged for infrequently used applications. You can verify the battery voltage by checking the voltage at the battery at least 8 hours after application use (or off charge) and if the battery voltage is not at least 12.84V then the battery is not considered fully charged. Voltage readings taken right off charge or after use (alternator/stator charging) will be inflated and inaccurate so for a true OCV reading, you should wait at least 8 hours before checking the voltage (OCV) with 24 hours being preferred.
    Any lower amp (less the 25A for PC1500 for example) charger that floats between 13.5-13.8V at the battery and never exceeds a constant voltage of 15.0V in any kind of automatic reconditioning, equalize, de-sulfation mode can be used as a maintainer only provided the charging current is high enough to counteract the parasitic loads of the application and maintain the acceptable voltage in float mode at the battery. With proper charge maintenance, a comparable Ah rated battery should have a service life of 2-3 times that of the same sized (Ah rated) battery in the same application with the same usage. ODYSSEY batteries have an 8-12 design life and have been known to function successfully well past the design life of 12 years. Here is the link to the program approved charger listing from the ODYSSEY Ultimizer Charger page for your reference. http://www.odysseybattery.com/docume...V_chargers.pdf.
    That said, your battery at 12.67V is not considered fully charged but it is at a high state of charge which should be enough for your engine however for it to drop that much during cranking, it would appear that the battery is probably heavily sulfated from consistent undercharging or being maintained in an undercharged state. If you like, you can use your large wheeled charger to attempt recovery and manually de-sulfate the battery provided the charger does not exceed 15.0V and during the charging process does not vent, hiss or get so hot you cannot hold your hand on it. Very warm is ok but no venting allowed. I would suggest using the highest amp setting that does not push excessive voltages. To manually recondition the battery a discharge, charge procedure where a load of 11.5A (5 hour rate of discharge) - 6.2A (10 hour rate of discharge) would be recommended to discharge the battery down to 10.0V (loaded) then charging at 25A or higher without exceed 15.0V to get the battery back up to a high or full state of charge. See chart from the Technical Manual linked on theODYSSEY website Literature page for your reference. This cycle can be performed as many times as required for the discharge time to remain the same 2 consecutive discharges from a “full” state of charge to 10.0V (loaded). Recovered capacity and therefore cranking amps would be indicated by longer run times with each successive discharge. If the discharge run time is 80% or more or its rated capacity or performs as required for your application then it can be used however, we recommend replacement when the battery fails to perform and a minimum of 80% of its rated capacity. Example: Assuming the rested voltage of the battery is at least 12.84V and fully charged, at the 5 hour rate of discharge at 11.5A (167W) it should take at least 4 hours to reach 10.0V have at least 80% of its rated capacity. At the 10 hour rate it of discharge it would have at least 8 hours run time.




    I hope this helps. Please contact me if you have any questions, concerns, or need further assistance. Sincerely,

    Kathy Mitchell



    EnerSys Representative
    Toll Free: 888-422-0317
    Fax: 660-429-6397
    Email: kathy.mitchell@enersys.com
    Corp site: www.enersys.com
    “Nothing worth doing is easy”
    TR

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    Well.... Shiver Me Timbers
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    Member J2theD's Avatar
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    From what you describe it almost sounds like a bad cell. Almost always if a battery reads between 9-10V, it's usually 5/6 cells are functional, one is not. When this happens, the battery is junk. Those Odyssey batteries are pretty amazing and it's rare for them to have warranties.

    Also, the only difference between the FAA approved and standard one is the label, and about 80-90$ of course lol.

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    It's obvious the battery is bad, replacing the battery will buy you some time but may not fix the problem. Is something in your plane causing the battery to fail prematurely? It may be time to have a A&E take a look at the plane if you don't have the experience or test equipments.

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    Sounds like a bad cell to me too. Mine had a 2 year warranty and they tested it and gave me a new one at 23 months.

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    $235 NEW BATTERY FROM STODDARDS INSTALLED. A local friend picked it up.

    Old battery is out in the shop. I re-wired my clock, voltmeter, OAT digital thing-a-ma-bob. Now it is on the hot side of the master and is not running when the plane is not running.
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
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    Member Akgramps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Float Pilot View Post
    $235 NEW BATTERY FROM STODDARDS INSTALLED. A local friend picked it up.

    Old battery is out in the shop. I re-wired my clock, voltmeter, OAT digital thing-a-ma-bob. Now it is on the hot side of the master and is not running when the plane is not running.
    Blasted "thing-a-ma-bob" anyhow.........!
    “Nothing worth doing is easy”
    TR

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    I have had mine in the plane since 09. I flew for a year with a bad stator in the Avid and just charged the battery every few flights at the house. Mine after 7 years will still run the nav lights, strobe, radio and GPS for about 6 hours including 4 or 5 engine starts before I had to recharge it. Me thinks you got a bad cell. A few times it has been run dead.. well, beyond dead and each time I would hook it up to the battery tender and it came back to life. I also had the same battery I pulled out of my Avid and put it in the 180 for a spell and it started the 0470 NO PROBLEM.

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