Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Pole Shed

  1. #1
    Member kobuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    215

    Default Pole Shed

    I'm wanting to build a 3 sided single sloped pole shed and I am having trouble coming up with pole ideas. It will be 12 x 24 with a total of 6 poles so I can have 12 feet openings in the front. Normally you bury a post in the ground and build the thing but that's where the problem starts. Some like it dug down 4-6 feet and put in gravel, some in a sona tube, etc. I have even looked into those techno posts that are screwed down which are cool but expensive. I would also like to see what it would cost to drive in metal pillings. Does anyone know who does that down on the Kenai? I'm down by clam gulch. The ground I'm in is gravel/sand and on a small knoll so I have pretty good drainage. Am I over thinking this? Original plan was to drill a hole drop a rock or pour a bottom plug and bury post back with gravel. I was told it would frost heave and post would rot after 10-15 years. Same with sono tube. I guess driving down a steel post would take care of that if its not too expensive.

  2. #2
    Member dieNqvrs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Kodiak
    Posts
    485

    Default Pole Shed

    Not sure who does what your looking at in Kenai, but in Matsu/ANC I wanted pilings driven for a cabin. I had the piles and called 7-8 contractors. Some wouldn't put mine in, others wanted 500-800 per pile, dependent on how many and location. Others didn't want to deal with a small job. I ended up using a guy referred to me use an excavator with a pile driver attachment to put them in. Pic from this spring.

  3. #3

    Default

    What is that "White" stuff.......is that sand........????


    Quote Originally Posted by dieNqvrs View Post
    Not sure who does what your looking at in Kenai, but in Matsu/ANC I wanted pilings driven for a cabin. I had the piles and called 7-8 contractors. Some wouldn't put mine in, others wanted 500-800 per pile, dependent on how many and location. Others didn't want to deal with a small job. I ended up using a guy referred to me use an excavator with a pile driver attachment to put them in. Pic from this spring.

  4. #4
    Member ChugiakTinkerer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Chugiak, Alaska
    Posts
    682

    Default

    You may be over thinking it. If your drainage is good, I'd wager you'll get a lot more than 15 years from those posts.

    I'm in the middle of replacing a cedar fence, and posts were pressure treated 4x4 dropped in augered hole and filled with concrete. 30 years later I'm redoing the fence but not due to rotting posts. I have pulled a few posts and the wood is in great shape, problem has been not enough concrete in the holes. Sandy soil so drainage is great but allowed posts to wiggle.

    I would probably just drill a hole and drop in a telephone pole or treated 6x6. Hire a bobcat w auger to drill your holes, put good drainage material in bottom of hole, wrap posts with heavy visqueen, and backfill with crushed rock. Gives you solid hold, excellent drainage so frost shouldn't be an issue anyhow, and if it is the visqueen keeps the frost from grabbing the post.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    AK
    Posts
    197

    Default

    Check out the company, Techno metal post alaska. They are out of homer I believe but work all over the state driving in helical piers. The smallest piers they drive are rated for about 7000 lbs a piece, and last i looked i think they were 300$ each. I was going to use em for my deck but the cost does add up.

    https://tmpalaska.com/what-is-techno-metal-post/


  6. #6
    Member kobuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    215

    Default

    It is crazy and confusing how many different ways to build this there are and all of the conflicting information. I probably am overthinking but I would also hate to have to rebuild it. I do like the looks of the techno posts and talked with that guy but it's the cost that concerns me. He wants 350 per plus another 30 for the saddle. I only want to do it right without going toooo over the top as far as cost wise. There has to be a line there somewhere! Has anyone done something like this and what results did you end up with?

  7. #7
    Member ChugiakTinkerer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Chugiak, Alaska
    Posts
    682

    Default

    If frost heaving is an issue in your property then you probably want to invest in piles or a footing below frost line. If soil is not frost susceptible then just do it. Plenty of cabins are standing decades later on their creosote post foundation.

    Frost heave happens when you have freezing temps, water in the ground, and susceptible soil that holds the water. Take one of those away and no frost.

    Even with frost heaving, you can prevent jacking of the post by anchoring it below the frost line and lining it with plastic so frost can't grab the post.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Southcentral Alaska
    Posts
    567

    Default

    If you use plastic to eliminate frost jacking of piles double wrap the piles with 10 mil plastic. A single wrap isn't nearly as effective as a double wrap (plastic slides against itself nicely, it doesn't slide against the ground very well.

    Even then, realize that many builders don't consider plastic to be effective. Consider back-filling with NFS gravel, at least for the upper 4 feet.

  9. #9
    Member cdubbin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    KP, the dingleberry of Alaska
    Posts
    1,749

    Default

    Post-frame structures do not conform to building codes but they are a long-established building practice, especially in agricultural areas down in the states...I've built and worked in some massive post frame shops down there. The National Association of Home Builders has published a comprehensive design guide for this building type; it is a bit pricey but probably the only game around for the info you need.
    " Gas boats are bad enough, autos are an invention of the devil, and airplanes are worse." ~Allen Hasselborg

  10. #10
    Member nooksack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    AK
    Posts
    82

    Default

    If your soil is sand and gravel then all you need to do is pour 2'x2'x10" pads with adjustable saddles for your posts and frame your structure. You are over thinkinking it. If the soil can not hold water it can not heave. Dig your pads just under the surface so they do not encroach on the openings.
    Just my opinion but is the most efficient providing you have clean sand and gravel.

  11. #11

    Default

    You will need something that is down the ground to act as a anchor with pole type of building you have a big sail for the wind to work with. Just putting down some pads will not work.

  12. #12
    Member kobuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    215

    Default

    Thanks for all of your tips and suggestions. I still need to do a little pondering. Should be a fun project once I get the posts set. SBS has the posts and do you add any cresote or other preservative over the treated posts or would it even help?

  13. #13
    Member cdubbin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    KP, the dingleberry of Alaska
    Posts
    1,749

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bend View Post
    You will need something that is down the ground to act as a anchor with pole type of building you have a big sail for the wind to work with. Just putting down some pads will not work.
    +1 to this...I dont know where folks get the idea that sand and gravel wont hold water...they do. Mighty well, in certain conditions. KP soil can also have a lot of silt, clay, and other nasty fines mixed in. No matter what you are building, a proper foundation is key to success...I would caution about saving a dime now to spend a dollar later....
    " Gas boats are bad enough, autos are an invention of the devil, and airplanes are worse." ~Allen Hasselborg

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    951

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kobuk View Post
    Thanks for all of your tips and suggestions. I still need to do a little pondering. Should be a fun project once I get the posts set. SBS has the posts and do you add any cresote or other preservative over the treated posts or would it even help?
    Make sure you get posts treated to "permanent wood foundation" specifications. SBS sells it, the big box stores don't. The wood has a much higher preservative concentration and you don't need to do any more to it except for cut ends. If you need to cut the posts, make sure the uncut treated end is what goes in the ground.

  15. #15
    Member kobuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    215

    Default

    When I called on the posts at SBS, the guy said that both the green pressure treated and the outdoor wood had the same rating of .6. That seemed odd to me since I always thought that the green pressure treated wood was rated for ground contact.

  16. #16
    Member Gerberman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Soldotna AK, Eugene, OR
    Posts
    612

    Default

    When I built my outdoor gazebo up by Soldotna, I dug holes about 20" in diameter, 3 feet deep, poured the bottom 6", put some rebar in the middle, then put a 10" sona-tube over the rebar and poured the rest of the tube full, installed a steel post bracket, made an upside down mushroom, this was to help with the wind lift. after a day, I backfilled the hole with gravel, installed the 6x8 posts, and started building.

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    951

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kobuk View Post
    When I called on the posts at SBS, the guy said that both the green pressure treated and the outdoor wood had the same rating of .6. That seemed odd to me since I always thought that the green pressure treated wood was rated for ground contact.
    Ask them what type of preservative that rating is for. 0.6 is perfect if it is ACQ. Once upon a time everything was CCA and it was simple to tell if lumber was treated to an appropriate level for the use. Since the EPA banned the use of CCA for most uses, there are now a plethora of preservatives on the market.

    This may help: http://treatedwood.com/uploads/AWPA_Standards.pdf

  18. #18
    Member AKDoug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Talkeetna
    Posts
    5,714

    Default

    CCA posts are still available. I sell them in .60 which is UC4B rated, the are green in color. I am switching to a CA (copper azule) treated 6x6's this week in UC4B treatment in brown color due to the fact that 90% of my posts are going towards deck projects and my customers want brown color.

    All of my treated lumber is brown town and is either UC4A or UC4B, both of which are good for ground contact. It is very possible that either of SBS's products are rated for ground contact.
    Bunny Boots and Bearcats: Utility Sled Mayhem

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    951

    Default

    I knew CCA wasn't completely banned, but I haven't seen it anywhere in years. I did buy posts from SBS that were rated UC4B and they were not treated with CCA. I forget the preservative now but they are brown in color. Below is what the AWPA has to say about UC4A and UC4B:


    UC4A Ground Contact, General Use:
    Soil, concrete, or fresh water contact items such as deck or fence posts, or some special heavy duty above ground applications like beams or girders.


    UC4B Ground Contact, Heavy Duty: For structural members that are difficult and/or expensive to replace.


    I'd go with UC4B for anything you want to last.

  20. #20
    Member cdubbin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    KP, the dingleberry of Alaska
    Posts
    1,749

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cdubbin View Post
    The National Association of Home Builders has published a comprehensive design guide for this building type; it is a bit pricey but probably the only game around for the info you need.
    Correction....National Frame Building Association put out the post frame manual, not NAHB....
    " Gas boats are bad enough, autos are an invention of the devil, and airplanes are worse." ~Allen Hasselborg

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •