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Thread: 9mm or 45?

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    Default 9mm or 45?

    Having purchased a 45 recently, a Hi-Point, I've noticed 2 thingys.

    First, that SW is selling a huge amount of ammo. Every time I go for more, what I got before, likely they ain't got no more. l buy for price, and it's usually less than 20 bucks.

    9mm IS cheaper, I've not got a good handle on how much on average, but the diff in price doesn't seem great enough to cause me to settle for an anemic cartridge like 9mm.

    There may be other reasons to choose 9mm, like gun size or recoil.

    Why you guys go with the 9mm? B'sides, 45s are Merican. How you gonna make America Great Again, shootin a furrin catridge?

    I wanna hear from EKC on this, too.

    SOTN
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    Having purchased a 45 recently, a Hi-Point, I've noticed 2 thingys.

    First, that SW is selling a huge amount of ammo. Every time I go for more, what I got before, likely they ain't got no more. l buy for price, and it's usually less than 20 bucks.

    9mm IS cheaper, I've not got a good handle on how much on average, but the diff in price doesn't seem great enough to cause me to settle for an anemic cartridge like 9mm.

    There may be other reasons to choose 9mm, like gun size or recoil.

    Why you guys go with the 9mm? B'sides, 45s are Merican. How you gonna make America Great Again, shootin a furrin catridge?

    I wanna hear from EKC on this, too.

    SOTN
    My only frame of reference comes from when I stuck deer with both those calibers and a whole lot of others. Of all I shot, the absolute worst performer was the 9mm. That probably reflects the bullets and velocities available at the time, but the ball version was a stone cold wounder, while the HPs never functioned reliably in my gun (Browning HP). The 45 with ball wasn't much better. In fact 38 special with 158 grain SWCs actually killed faster. The 38 with RNs drilled holes and was slow to kill just like the 9 and the 45 with ball. Made me a firm believer in meplats.

    The one 45 round available then that did well was the Remington 185 grain HP. It never expanded that I saw, but that big old hollow in the nose appeared to "convince" the deer that it was a big meplat. My 45 (original Colt) was only marginally reliable in feeding it though.

    I admit I'm prejudiced toward the 45, but that's based on experience, however many years ago I was doing it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    9mm or 45?
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  4. #4

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    You know, I've seen NOTHING about anyone poking deer with any of the modern bullets and rounds, whether 9mm, 40 or 45. Lotta chest beating about what great defensive rounds one or the other might be, but nothing on deer. With liberal seasons and bag limits in many areas, it seems like the same opportunity I had to put blood on the ground. It's behind me now, but someone ought to be hunting with them. I sure learned a lot from my adventures, but I'm about as out of date now as a political campaign promise.
    "Lay in the weeds and wait, and when you get your chance to say something, say something good."
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    Thankfully, I reload so cost is much lower and is not even part of my criteria for caliber selection. I've never owned a 45ACP but have shot a fair number before. 9mm is a pain to reload but I find it more fun to shoot. I'm confident other people find the opposite is true; that 45ACP is more fun to shoot.


    I do have a DW 1911 (officer size) in 9mm which fits my hand like a glove. I also have a Glock 40 (10mm, which I really like and shoot well) so I don't see a particular need to get a 45ACP at this point. Many at my gun club have a wide assortment of 1911s in 45ACP so I am clearly in the minority.

    In the end, we should choose the caliber that we find most fun.

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    I shoot a 9mm because it came with a lot of ammo plus very nice gun Hi- Power at cheap price. I would trade it all if a nice 357 came along
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    I just find the 45 ACP more exciting. Of course, it's much more powerful.

    Reportedly, there is some doubt that the 9mm is enough gun, but you never hear that about the 45. Not for what it's used for, anyway.

    It's not been considered a field gun in the past, but more, and more you hear of it used that way. I doubt it's a bear gun, but surely it is superior to 9mm for that.

    Most auto pistols are of smaller caliber, and intended for shooting peoples. I had expected some discussion on how mighty the 9mm is.

    SOTN
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    I just find the 45 ACP more exciting. Of course, it's much more powerful.

    Reportedly, there is some doubt that the 9mm is enough gun, but you never hear that about the 45. Not for what it's used for, anyway.

    It's not been considered a field gun in the past, but more, and more you hear of it used that way. I doubt it's a bear gun, but surely it is superior to 9mm for that.

    Most auto pistols are of smaller caliber, and intended for shooting peoples. I had expected some discussion on how mighty the 9mm is.

    SOTN
    The 9mm isn't necessarily mighty, but I'd say it is efficient. Look at data on new ammo. It's decent. It's adequate for what I use it for. It's a CCW that you don't see.

    Last time I was in town 9mm was about half the cost of 45acp, which at this point has kept me from purchasing another 45. My next handgun purchase though will be either a 45 or a 10mm unless I decide in a 357.

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    Another thought is that comparing a 9mm to
    a 45 is a challenge. Do we want velocity? Capacity? Fun to shoot factor? Cost? Penetration?

    I always compare a 9mm to a .40 cal and a 40 cal to 45.

    One round im giving serious consideration to though is the 357 mag. I like the data on it for home/CC but the cost is keeping me at bay.

  10. #10

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    The cost of what.......the tool or the ammo ??? I have owned a lot of .357 Mag firearms. And have settled on the S&W M-60 with the 3" bbl. because it has an adjustable rear sight, and not a trench. I do wish they offered it with a target trigger, or something wider than standard. The 200 gr. Hard-Cast Cor-Bon of a awesome .357 cartridge, even out of a 3" bbl.



    Quote Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius View Post

    One round im giving serious consideration to though is the 357 mag. I like the data on it for home/CC but the cost is keeping me at bay.

  11. #11

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    Gotta add that compared to loading 9s, 40s and 45s, the 38 special and 357 are a joy to reload. Little longer cases and a lot more latitude for adjustments in seating and crimping cast bullets. One of my (many) regrets in life is letting go the 10" 357 mag Contender barrel I once owned. With a scope on it you could go wild experimenting with handloads and accuracy. It was without a doubt the single most accurate 357/38 I've ever owned and seen. We're talking laying soda cans down with only their bottoms showing and hitting them every single time at 100 yards. With the most accurate loads, the game was to spin them around so the top was showing and shooting at the opening. And doing it!

    At 50 yards the most accurate load was a wadcutter seated out just short of the rifling (about half the length of the wadcutter) with the right dose of Unique or 700X under it. Weird looking thing! Most accurate load at 100 yards was the RCBS 200 grain gascheck rifle bullet launched about as fast as you could push it. Another weird looker. To my regret I never chronoed that load, mostly because I was having so much fun shooting it.
    "Lay in the weeds and wait, and when you get your chance to say something, say something good."
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    The cost of what.......the tool or the ammo ??? I have owned a lot of .357 Mag firearms. And have settled on the S&W M-60 with the 3" bbl. because it has an adjustable rear sight, and not a trench. I do wish they offered it with a target trigger, or something wider than standard. The 200 gr. Hard-Cast Cor-Bon of a awesome .357 cartridge, even out of a 3" bbl.
    They claim 1150 fps fm a 6" barrel, so you lÚse between 50 and 60 fps per inch leaving around 1000 fps. BUT, you make up the diff in Muzzle BLAST.

    My CC 38 special has a 3" barrel, and is a great improvement over a snubbie, but 3" is wayyy too short for a 357, IMO.

    I don't mean to sound knowlegeable, but If you go to Doubletap, I think they have better loads.

    As far as Raw Power is concerned! comparing 45 ACP to a short barrel 357, it might be better to go with bullet weight than velocity.

    Thar be SWC bullets available for 45 ACP.

    BB must be right. Cartridges that are not considered enough for game are not tested, or told about. Back down there in the Old Country where most of the hunting is from a tree stand would be a great testing ground, and we'd have something to go on under controlled conditions.

    Maybe, 10 or 11 years ago, one of my neighbors was trying to convince me that he could kill one of the Moose hanging around here with his 380. Maybe it was just wishfull thinking, but he acted like he was gonna try it, even.

    I expressed great doubt, even though I'm not a moose hunter, and he IS. Recently, he has been using a ShootGun for moose and has taken a couple, at least, with Cow Permits.

    Like I said, I'm no moose hunter, and also, I can't hunt moose around here, because I get the Tier I for Caribou. I'm not wanting to hunt big game with an under-power cartridge, but their potential help me choose among'em.

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    Gotta add that compared to loading 9s, 40s and 45s, the 38 special and 357 are a joy to reload. Little longer cases and a lot more latitude for adjustments in seating and crimping cast bullets. One of my (many) regrets in life is letting go the 10" 357 mag Contender barrel I once owned. With a scope on it you could go wild experimenting with handloads and accuracy. It was without a doubt the single most accurate 357/38 I've ever owned and seen. We're talking laying soda cans down with only their bottoms showing and hitting them every single time at 100 yards. With the most accurate loads, the game was to spin them around so the top was showing and shooting at the opening. And doing it!

    At 50 yards the most accurate load was a wadcutter seated out just short of the rifling (about half the length of the wadcutter) with the right dose of Unique or 700X under it. Weird looking thing! Most accurate load at 100 yards was the RCBS 200 grain gascheck rifle bullet launched about as fast as you could push it. Another weird looker. To my regret I never chronoed that load, mostly because I was having so much fun shooting it.
    Good point about hand loading Auto cartridges.

    I'd load 45 ACP if I hadda volver chambered for it. I wonder how much EKC could hop'em up.

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  14. #14

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    Not ignoring ya Smitty. I got got shanghaied off to a resort for 3 days by my for kids their spouses and all 12 grandkids. Seems our 40th anny versatary is this year. So we got treated like royalty. Nice resort amungst the trees over looking a lake full of big bass, crappie and blue gills. It was loads of fun. Now I'm back to reality!

    Smitty I would take a 45 ACP over a 9 milipeter every time where things were serious. However if I am paying for the ammo and we are shooting dirt clods and cow pies then give me the nine. I have killed deer with 357, 40 S&W, 41 Mag, 44 mag, 45 ACP and 45 Colt. They all died as dead as if being shot by a big iron. The 357s were hot! They were 125 XTPS at close to 1500 and they must go into the lungs broadside or your waisting your time. If they land just off the point of the elbow the deer practically dies in it's tracks.

    I have a Khar CW9 that I bought to carry. However the trigger stinks and has the longest pull of any handgun that I have ever owned. I have been carrying my 1911 for about a year now but I just switched to my model 60 357. The 1911 looks like I've got a turd in my pocket in hot weather clothes. The 60 hides way better and shoots almost as good as the 1911 and will equal it after a little getting used to. I have a $260 SAR BP6 in 9mm that holds 15 rounds and shoots real good with the cheap store bought ammo. I currently have it in an old holster that I screwed to my woods mower. Ya can't hardly cut grass with a gun dangling off of ya so I driled th rivetts out of an old holster and used some self tapping screws to screw it to the mower in a way handy spot. I take it home with me at night and blow it off with the air compressor. I even had mother run it through the dishwasher once after a dry dusty 7 hours of cutting grass, gopher mounds, ant hills and what ever else nature throwed in the way. I put the Kahr in that holster but the only time I pulled it out was to shoot at a woodchuck. It was bad! The woodchuck didn't even know I was shooting at him as I was missing him that far. Two whole magazines full off that high dollar Hornady protect me from bad guys ammo. The SAR would have rendered him dead as would have most any other handgun that I have ever owned. I gave the Kahr to my son and told him to use it for trading stock.

    HI-Points? They are the Henry Ford handgun for sure. Everyone that I know that has one says they function fine. They would never make a CCW gun for me though. You strap one of those heavy things to my britches and my butt crack is gonna smile on everyone! They are that awkward heavy!

  15. #15

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    I consider the S&W M-60 3" to be in the same class as "Survival" Gear. It is not intended for hunting. The goal of survival gear is not to be comfortable on a three week hunt on South Kodiak in mid October. For that one takes different equipment. For me the 3" .357 mag. is better than nothing. If I expect a high probability of bear encounter or moose attack, then I take a more appropriate firearm. I have just barely big enough edc knives that I always carry, but if I am setting out to re-blaze a trail for six hours I choose a much larger cutting tool.



    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    They claim 1150 fps fm a 6" barrel, so you lÚse between 50 and 60 fps per inch leaving around 1000 fps. BUT, you make up the diff in Muzzle BLAST.

    My CC 38 special has a 3" barrel, and is a great improvement over a snubbie, but 3" is wayyy too short for a 357, IMO.

    I don't mean to sound knowlegeable, but If you go to Doubletap, I think they have better loads.

    As far as Raw Power is concerned! comparing 45 ACP to a short barrel 357, it might be better to go with bullet weight than velocity.

    Thar be SWC bullets available for 45 ACP.

    BB must be right. Cartridges that are not considered enough for game are not tested, or told about. Back down there in the Old Country where most of the hunting is from a tree stand would be a great testing ground, and we'd have something to go on under controlled conditions.

    Maybe, 10 or 11 years ago, one of my neighbors was trying to convince me that he could kill one of the Moose hanging around here with his 380. Maybe it was just wishfull thinking, but he acted like he was gonna try it, even.

    I expressed great doubt, even though I'm not a moose hunter, and he IS. Recently, he has been using a ShootGun for moose and has taken a couple, at least, with Cow Permits.

    Like I said, I'm no moose hunter, and also, I can't hunt moose around here, because I get the Tier I for Caribou. I'm not wanting to hunt big game with an under-power cartridge, but their potential help me choose among'em.

    Smitty of the North

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    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    I consider the S&W M-60 3" to be in the same class as "Survival" Gear. It is not intended for hunting. The goal of survival gear is not to be comfortable on a three week hunt on South Kodiak in mid October. For that one takes different equipment. For me the 3" .357 mag. is better than nothing. If I expect a high probability of bear encounter or moose attack, then I take a more appropriate firearm. I have just barely big enough edc knives that I always carry, but if I am setting out to re-blaze a trail for six hours I choose a much larger cutting tool.
    I understand, and approve the concept, and maybe your choice is bout the best you can do.

    It just doesn't quite meet my minimum requirements for survival.

    SOTN
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    I agree............It does not meet my minimum either for survival tool. However for day-in day-out work around the homestead, it meets my very minimum for everyday carry. Anything bigger than the "J-Frame" is simply an unacceptable annoyance, when logging or building or operating the D-8, or climbing trees, etc..

    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    I understand, and approve the concept, and maybe your choice is bout the best you can do.

    It just doesn't quite meet my minimum requirements for survival.

    SOTN

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    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    I agree............It does not meet my minimum either for survival tool. However for day-in day-out work around the homestead, it meets my very minimum for everyday carry. Anything bigger than the "J-Frame" is simply an unacceptable annoyance, when logging or building or operating the D-8, or climbing trees, etc..
    They made a 5" version. I shoulda buyed the one I saw at SW. How was I spose to know they were gonna quit making them?

    SOTN
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    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmerkeithclone View Post
    Not ignoring ya Smitty. I got got shanghaied off to a resort for 3 days by my for kids their spouses and all 12 grandkids. Seems our 40th anny versatary is this year. So we got treated like royalty. Nice resort amungst the trees over looking a lake full of big bass, crappie and blue gills. It was loads of fun. Now I'm back to reality!

    Smitty I would take a 45 ACP over a 9 milipeter every time where things were serious. However if I am paying for the ammo and we are shooting dirt clods and cow pies then give me the nine. I have killed deer with 357, 40 S&W, 41 Mag, 44 mag, 45 ACP and 45 Colt. They all died as dead as if being shot by a big iron. The 357s were hot! They were 125 XTPS at close to 1500 and they must go into the lungs broadside or your waisting your time. If they land just off the point of the elbow the deer practically dies in it's tracks.

    I have a Khar CW9 that I bought to carry. However the trigger stinks and has the longest pull of any handgun that I have ever owned. I have been carrying my 1911 for about a year now but I just switched to my model 60 357. The 1911 looks like I've got a turd in my pocket in hot weather clothes. The 60 hides way better and shoots almost as good as the 1911 and will equal it after a little getting used to. I have a $260 SAR BP6 in 9mm that holds 15 rounds and shoots real good with the cheap store bought ammo. I currently have it in an old holster that I screwed to my woods mower. Ya can't hardly cut grass with a gun dangling off of ya so I driled th rivetts out of an old holster and used some self tapping screws to screw it to the mower in a way handy spot. I take it home with me at night and blow it off with the air compressor. I even had mother run it through the dishwasher once after a dry dusty 7 hours of cutting grass, gopher mounds, ant hills and what ever else nature throwed in the way. I put the Kahr in that holster but the only time I pulled it out was to shoot at a woodchuck. It was bad! The woodchuck didn't even know I was shooting at him as I was missing him that far. Two whole magazines full off that high dollar Hornady protect me from bad guys ammo. The SAR would have rendered him dead as would have most any other handgun that I have ever owned. I gave the Kahr to my son and told him to use it for trading stock.

    HI-Points? They are the Henry Ford handgun for sure. Everyone that I know that has one says they function fine. They would never make a CCW gun for me though. You strap one of those heavy things to my britches and my butt crack is gonna smile on everyone! They are that awkward heavy!
    EKC:
    You've have more fun than Rush Limbaugh.

    I'm writin off the 9mm, cept for,, "shooting dirt clods and cow pies".

    How does the 40 S&W compare to 45?

    People need to be honest about them HiPoints. It's a purty name they've got. I can't say they it's descriptive, though.

    If you got one, you'll have it the rest of your life, because no one else wants it. Nooo, they don't work well for "trading stock".

    My 45 jams every now and again. I think maybe I'm limp wristing it. I kin hit things at close range, and I'm making progress in other areas too. I have a HOLSTER now. A cross draw I got from Track of the Wolf, that is for my 50 cal. ML pistol.

    I can carry it is the swamps now and if I see a bar, yank it out and pull, wait a minute, bar,,, get the slide back and let go. This chambers a round, and then the Fire Control System takes over.

    It feels kinda funny, and it jumps around when I shoot it, but I'll get it figgered out onna these days. The best thing is, it's not a 9mm.

    Even 45s need something to look down on.

    Thanks for your indulgence.

    SOTN
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    The cost of what.......the tool or the ammo ??? I have owned a lot of .357 Mag firearms. And have settled on the S&W M-60 with the 3" bbl. because it has an adjustable rear sight, and not a trench. I do wish they offered it with a target trigger, or something wider than standard. The 200 gr. Hard-Cast Cor-Bon of a awesome .357 cartridge, even out of a 3" bbl.
    Ammo. Last time I was in town I had a sweet deal on a ruger sp101, while I was buying ammo, the guy backed out. It was a good thing. I wasn't impressed with the ammo prices.

    One reason I like the 9mm, is the affordability of shooting the caliber.

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