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Thread: 25-20 brass from 32-20

  1. #1

    Default 25-20 brass from 32-20

    If I can take a 357 mag brass and resize it to 256 in one step I should be able to do the same with turning 32-20 brass into 25-20 brass shouldn't I?

  2. #2
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    I haven't tried it but I would think it would work. I would lube it well and go slow. 32/20 brass is thin and may cave in rather than form. I think I'll try one and see. There is a guy on "cast boolits" (Grumpa) that forms them from 32/20. I think he sells them for 50 cents each formed from new 32/20 brass.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    I haven't tried it but I would think it would work. I would lube it well and go slow. 32/20 brass is thin and may cave in rather than form. I think I'll try one and see. There is a guy on "cast boolits" (Grumpa) that forms them from 32/20. I think he sells them for 50 cents each formed from new 32/20 brass.
    I have bid on some 32-20 brass and if I don't get them I will look up this grumpa fella.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    I haven't tried it but I would think it would work. I would lube it well and go slow. 32/20 brass is thin and may cave in rather than form. I think I'll try one and see. There is a guy on "cast boolits" (Grumpa) that forms them from 32/20. I think he sells them for 50 cents each formed from new 32/20 brass.
    I bet that if I anneal them first and use Redding dies they will go in one step.
    I already got a personal message tongue lashing me on another forum for having the nerve to change a piece of brass to something other than what is stamped on the base of the case. Heck a fire purdinary all my 7 mm-08 ammo says 243 on the case. Ain't no way in heck you could get one of them to chamber in a 243. I told the guy to breath easy it ain't like I'm smoking stogies at the gas pump.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by elmerkeithclone View Post
    I bet that if I anneal them first....
    I wouldn't, not on the first trial at least. You're dealing with a really thin and short case and limited shoulder, and if the annealing gets too far down on the case it's real easy to collapse the case rather than form the neck and shoulder. Only cases I'd anneal would be any that have been fired lots, and then I'd submerge them in water with only the necks and shoulder sticking out while hitting them with the heat.

    I've reformed both new Remington and new Winchester 32-20's to 25-20 without annealing. Seems to work best with Imperial sizing wax rather than one of the goo lubricants. Much less chance of dents from lube buildup, and the Imperial sure seems slicker in terms of effort. But we're not talking much effort in the first place.

    One thing I do though is kind of a "miniimum" reform. I only push them far enough into the 25-20 die that I can just barely chamber them in the rifle so the shoulder is already "set" before fire forming. Then I leave the die at that setting for future sizing. That goes all the way for establishing head space on the shoulder rather than the rim, greatly extending case life. And you already know the cases aren't cheap!

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    I wouldn't, not on the first trial at least. You're dealing with a really thin and short case and limited shoulder, and if the annealing gets too far down on the case it's real easy to collapse the case rather than form the neck and shoulder. Only cases I'd anneal would be any that have been fired lots, and then I'd submerge them in water with only the necks and shoulder sticking out while hitting them with the heat.

    I've reformed both new Remington and new Winchester 32-20's to 25-20 without annealing. Seems to work best with Imperial sizing wax rather than one of the goo lubricants. Much less chance of dents from lube buildup, and the Imperial sure seems slicker in terms of effort. But we're not talking much effort in the first place.

    One thing I do though is kind of a "miniimum" reform. I only push them far enough into the 25-20 die that I can just barely chamber them in the rifle so the shoulder is already "set" before fire forming. Then I leave the die at that setting for future sizing. That goes all the way for establishing head space on the shoulder rather than the rim, greatly extending case life. And you already know the cases aren't cheap!
    I'll do as you say leave the heat off of them and get some imperial wax. Hmm headspace a rimmed case off of the shoulder....I do like your thinking. I bet it will help accuracy as well. Do you do that with all bottle necked rimmed cartridges? I'm learning new stuff today! Yee Haw!

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by elmerkeithclone View Post
    I bet it will help accuracy as well. Do you do that with all bottle necked rimmed cartridges?
    You sly dog. Saw right through me, didn't you!

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    You sly dog. Saw right through me, didn't you!
    Actually I was asking that in amazement. Such a common sense idea...why didn't I think of it on my own......might a just answered my own question huh? Here I though I was a common sense person...not always me reckons.

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    Soooo, After shooting/fireforming, a Rimmed, bottleneck case like 30 30, 30 40 krag, 7.62 x 54, 25 20,

    OR a Belted case, like 7mm RM, 300 WM,

    What is the case Head Spacing on?? The Shoulder, or the Rim/Belt??

    SOTN
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    Soooo, After shooting/fireforming, a Rimmed, bottleneck case like 30 30, 30 40 krag, 7.62 x 54, 25 20,

    OR a Belted case, like 7mm RM, 300 WM,

    What is the case Head Spacing on?? The Shoulder, or the Rim/Belt??
    If you leave the die at the factory setting, the rimmed case will head space on the rim. The belted case will head space on the belt. The rimmless bottlneck case will theoretically headspace on the shoulder. That is, providing the rims are all the same thickness, the belts are all the same thickness, and the standard factory die mates with the shoulder on your specific rimless bottleneck shoulder.

    If any of those are a mismatch, you'll set the shoulder forward on every firing, then set it back again to the factory sized length every time you run it all the way into the sizing die. No mismatch, no sweat. If they don't match well, you'll shorten case life and accuracy could well suffer.

    By doing your own "head space" setting with die adjustment, you can mate the cases to the chamber for least shoulder movement, longer case life, and potentially better accuracy.

    I never trust any of those things to be right, and always "custom" set my sizing dies to match the chambers. Only problem is when you have several guns in the same bottleneck caliber. I have to keep cases for one of my 257 Roberts separate from the rest because it's longish head space and the accompanying die adjustment produces cases that are too long for the other two rifles. It's the best shooting of the three and my favorite, so it's worth keeping its cases all by their lonesome. Factory rounds and cases sized for the other two rifles shoot just fine in that rifle too, but case life is reduced and accuracy goes hand in a hellbasket.

    Wasn't this tune danced to once before in the last year or so?

  11. #11

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    One more note, EKC:

    Be gentle with the deburring tool on the 25-20 cases. I don't have a tubing micrometer any more and haven't actually measured, but the necks seem as thin and tender as those on a 22 Hornet.
    "Lay in the weeds and wait, and when you get your chance to say something, say something good."
    Merle Haggard

  12. #12

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    What the heck.... One more one more note:

    Keep forgetting to pass this along. The most accurate load (with the scope on my 1894, before resorting back to a receiver sight) was the Speer 75 grain FP I mentioned, RP cases, Fed 200 primer and a measly 5.0 grains of Unique for just over 1300fps. Been shooting that load since 2003, and case life is excellent with just a maiden's kiss of a crimp into the bullet cannelure.

    According to my reloading notes from that date, it was also Ken Waters' most accurate load in his M1894 25-20, so that makes two of us that like it!

    Hot dang! I just checked, and according to their site Speer still peddles their 25 caliber 75-grain Flat Point. While rooting around to find things to send you, I saw my stock is getting a little skinny. Time to reorder a pile.
    "Lay in the weeds and wait, and when you get your chance to say something, say something good."
    Merle Haggard

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    What the heck.... One more one more note:

    Keep forgetting to pass this along. The most accurate load (with the scope on my 1894, before resorting back to a receiver sight) was the Speer 75 grain FP I mentioned, RP cases, Fed 200 primer and a measly 5.0 grains of Unique for just over 1300fps. Been shooting that load since 2003, and case life is excellent with just a maiden's kiss of a crimp into the bullet cannelure.

    According to my reloading notes from that date, it was also Ken Waters' most accurate load in his M1894 25-20, so that makes two of us that like it!

    Hot dang! I just checked, and according to their site Speer still peddles their 25 caliber 75-grain Flat Point. While rooting around to find things to send you, I saw my stock is getting a little skinny. Time to reorder a pile.
    I have a stash of gas checked cast boolits from a time ago. I'll play with them after I get some brass squished down. I bid on 3 auctions of 32-20 brass. Two auctions were for a hundred each and the last one was for 2 hundred. I'll be darned if I didn't win all three. So I now have 400 brass to resize. Boy oh boy do I hope it sizes down OK. If not I'm gonna have to buy a 32-20 shooting stick. Fellers....this is just starting to getting way outta hand. Please don't nobody wave anymore cool guns under EKCs nose. My wife is a wonderful person so long as I don't rile her with over indulgence in shooting sticks. Now she ain't been a problem this go around yet. She don't know one lever gun from another but by George she can count.

    My little back stabbing Jack Russell/King Chuck Cavalier doggie is a wise guy. Once upon a time a few months back I bought a new scattergun at Brownells grand opening. When I brought it in the house my dog Hank(that's yer fault too BB) sniffed that gun like he was gonna hike a leg on it. My little wife screamed cuz she thought the same. I said he was just outside he is just checking it out cuz it' s new and has new smells. Now every time I bring a different gun into the house the little Bennedict Arnold rats me out. Anyone else have to hide new guns from the dog so he don't tell the wife. Darnedest thing ever I saw. The two of them is in kahoots with the devil for sure.

  14. #14

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    Bribe the dog!

    Can't help you on avoiding a 32-20. An 1894 in 32-20 would be the perfect companion for your 25-20. I had one once upon a time, but a bud talked me out of it. Always regretted letting it go, but I'm proud that he's still so happy with it.
    "Lay in the weeds and wait, and when you get your chance to say something, say something good."
    Merle Haggard

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    If you leave the die at the factory setting, the rimmed case will head space on the rim. The belted case will head space on the belt. The rimmless bottlneck case will theoretically headspace on the shoulder. That is, providing the rims are all the same thickness, the belts are all the same thickness, and the standard factory die mates with the shoulder on your specific rimless bottleneck shoulder.

    If any of those are a mismatch, you'll set the shoulder forward on every firing, then set it back again to the factory sized length every time you run it all the way into the sizing die. No mismatch, no sweat. If they don't match well, you'll shorten case life and accuracy could well suffer.

    By doing your own "head space" setting with die adjustment, you can mate the cases to the chamber for least shoulder movement, longer case life, and potentially better accuracy.

    I never trust any of those things to be right, and always "custom" set my sizing dies to match the chambers. Only problem is when you have several guns in the same bottleneck caliber. I have to keep cases for one of my 257 Roberts separate from the rest because it's longish head space and the accompanying die adjustment produces cases that are too long for the other two rifles. It's the best shooting of the three and my favorite, so it's worth keeping its cases all by their lonesome. Factory rounds and cases sized for the other two rifles shoot just fine in that rifle too, but case life is reduced and accuracy goes hand in a hellbasket.

    Wasn't this tune danced to once before in the last year or so?
    Yes, I've been all over this "Headspacing" a Belted or Rimmed case on the shoulder".

    You've given about the the best explanation of what can happen, and why ya gotta pay attention to how the sizing die is adjusted. (Mismatch, etc.)

    I've read various articles, and I believe I understand the issue, but I have trouble with the Lingo.

    I believe a Rimmed or Belted case will always Headspace on the Rim or belt, because there is always some clearance in the chamber, with a properly sized case, and even a fireformed case.

    Anyone who has a 25 20 that is a "shooter" is IMO, fortunate. I read one time ago, that most original 25 20s had corroded barrels from the BP, and poor cleaning.

    I've not even seen many 25 20s, but the one I examined, a LA rifle, in otherwise beautiful condition had a corroded barrel.

    25 20 is an appealing cartridge even if it is an old BP round. So is the 45 70 and look at what's happening there. It has plenty range for iron sights, which was the norm for the guns it was chambered in

    I dunno why someone doesn't chamber the round. Sales is a function of Marketing, and marketing should have a leg up with the 25 20.

    C'mon Rossi. There is another option though. One of Andy's 256 WMs.

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  16. #16
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    My Win 92 in 25/20 was born in 1921 and the wrinkles in the barrel are gettin a bit weak. Still, it will shoot a lyman cast boolit under 2" at 100yds. I have a 32/20 in a 92Win as well but I can't get it to shoot like the 25/20. I might be trying to push them a bit hard though. I just got to get retired. This work thing is really interfering with my gun play time.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    My Win 92 in 25/20 was born in 1921 and the wrinkles in the barrel are gettin a bit weak. Still, it will shoot a lyman cast boolit under 2" at 100yds. I have a 32/20 in a 92Win as well but I can't get it to shoot like the 25/20. I might be trying to push them a bit hard though. I just got to get retired. This work thing is really interfering with my gun play time.
    Bleeve it or not, I once owned 2 Win 92s. One war a 25 20, and the other, a 38 40.

    I bought them both together at a gun store in Anch. I started counting out the asking price, and the owner stopped me before I got there. l dunno what possessed me to buy them, but I did.

    I bought ammo for them both and shot them both. The 25 20 was rusted up more, and I liked the 38 40 better. I had been told the 38 40 didn't feed well, but I never had any problems with it.

    I remember the ser. no. was 2 didjits. like the other numbers had been worn off. I was not a collector, and at the time I had little appreciation for what looked like worn out old guns.

    Anyway, a few years later, and after I was married, I took them both to another gun store to trade in. The guy there told me how worthless they were for collecting. Then he stalled me by talking to another customer while I looked at his stock of guns.

    Then, he told me how much in trade he would give me. I picked out a Win 94, a Win 9422M, a Win mdl 37 20 GA Youth model, and a recoil pad to make it come out even.

    I think that's all, and I went home happy and told my wife what a shrewd deal I made.

    I had the 94 customized and I sold it a few years, ago, before the prices for them went up, for $400.00

    I gave the 9422M to my Beeg Brother, back on the farm in MO.

    I still have the 20 GA. I dunno what hoppen to the recoil pad, or don't know which one it is.

    It's not the same kinda trade performance one might expect from EKC or BB, but I never got much beyond Hillbilly.

    And, I'm not complainin.

    SOTN
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    Bleeve it or not, I once owned 2 Win 92s. One war a 25 20, and the other, a 38 40.

    I bought them both together at a gun store in Anch. I started counting out the asking price, and the owner stopped me before I got there. l dunno what possessed me to buy them, but I did.

    I bought ammo for them both and shot them both. The 25 20 was rusted up more, and I liked the 38 40 better. I had been told the 38 40 didn't feed well, but I never had any problems with it.

    I remember the ser. no. was 2 didjits. like the other numbers had been worn off. I was not a collector, and at the time I had little appreciation for what looked like worn out old guns.

    Anyway, a few years later, and after I was married, I took them both to another gun store to trade in. The guy there told me how worthless they were for collecting. Then he stalled me by talking to another customer while I looked at his stock of guns.

    Then, he told me how much in trade he would give me. I picked out a Win 94, a Win 9422M, a Win mdl 37 20 GA Youth model, and a recoil pad to make it come out even.

    I think that's all, and I went home happy and told my wife what a shrewd deal I made.

    I had the 94 customized and I sold it a few years, ago, before the prices for them went up, for $400.00

    I gave the 9422M to my Beeg Brother, back on the farm in MO.

    I still have the 20 GA. I dunno what hoppen to the recoil pad, or don't know which one it is.

    It's not the same kinda trade performance one might expect from EKC or BB, but I never got much beyond Hillbilly.

    And, I'm not complainin.

    SOTN
    Trade performance? Oh Buddy, you have so eclipsed my trade performance. I have a way to go to reach hillbilly status. Boy I have made some dumb trades over the years.

    Smitty I have posted to many recent purchases on this forum and wasn't going to post this one for fear of gloating. I am not like that but don't want to give that impression. I have had more financial ups and downs than Donald Trump and know first hand that a serious health crisis could take everything I have in a short while. Even the best insurance has limits of pay outs. That said, I humbly submit this link to my 25-20.
    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=556193363

  19. #19

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    I think I have it. Since the 32-20 case is very thin walled it would be very advantages to step it down to 25-20 in two steps. There are no dies in between. So since the hole in the press that holds the dies in place is 7/8inch with a 14 pitch. I am going to buy a 7/8-14 bolt and drill a 19/64th inch hole right in the center of the bolt going from the threaded end to the head. Then will taper the edge of that hole with a taper stone in my dremel tool. The 19/64 hole (.297") falls right in the middle of where the 32-20 brass already is and where I want to get it to when it becomes a 25-20. I think I have just made a step down die. I will lock the bolt with the lock ring so that I am sizing the neck only. It should be easy as heck to do and may save a bunch of cases from getting ruined. Thoughts? Am I thinking past something here?

  20. #20

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    I've never felt the need to dress up a Marlin trigger, so I don't know how to do it. But some folks do so.

    My M1894 25-20's trigger is a very crisp 3# with no creep, drag or other annoyances. That might be "too heavy" for some folks in a small game rifle, but no complaints here. Hope that detail works out well for you, too.
    "Lay in the weeds and wait, and when you get your chance to say something, say something good."
    Merle Haggard

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