Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Troubles with new 1873 Win in 45 Colt

  1. #1
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Kachemak Bay Alaska
    Posts
    4,214

    Default Troubles with new 1873 Win in 45 Colt

    Ijust obtained a new Japanese made Winchester 73 in 45 Colt. It has a 20 inch barrel

    I tried 9.0 grains of CFE Pistol which is supposed to be around 13,000 psi. Using Star-line brass, a Win stan/mag primer and heavy roll crimp into some mystery 250 grain rounded flat point cast bullets with a beveled base. They are .452 to .453.

    This load averaged 1120 fps from the 20 inch M-73 and 900 fps from a 5.5 inch Uberti SAA.
    But it was still a 1.5 inch to 2.o inch groups at only 25 yards from the rifle. Over a sandbag.
    The same load shot a 2.5 inch group from the 5.5 inch SAA off hand.

    NOTE: My original 1892 in 38wcf will shoot cloverleafs at 50 yards with hand-loads if I use jacketed bullets. So it is probably not me.

    The next load was 8.0 grains of Unique into the same brass and primer.
    This load averaged 1,082 fps from the 20 inch M-73 and only 780 fps from a 5.5 inch SAA. And this was even worse at 2.0 to 2.5 inch groups at only 25 yards. It did shoot a 1.5 inch group from the SAA at 25 yards.


    While both these loads are not wimpy, bit had a lot of gas escaping back down the side of the case in two revolvers and in the rifle. So I am not obtaining a good gas seal. SEE PIC

    So any ideas why I am still experiencing gas blowing back down the cases at these velocities? Any thoughts on a better load?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2015-07-16 005 (960x1280).jpg   2015-07-16 002 (1280x988).jpg  
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
    Experimental Hand-Loader, NRA Life Member
    http://site.dragonflyaero.com

  2. #2

    Default

    I have limited experience with Starline brass, but that I've used was consistently pretty hard.

    In your boots, I'd try annealing those cases. Ought to help them expand to fill the chambers reliably. Dunno if that will improve the accuracy, but it can't hurt.

    Have you checked the throat length on that new rifle? No experience with it, but in other models and calibers I've shot with cast bullets, accuracy suffers dramatically as the jump goes up between bullet and rifling. If those are soft bullets, you might even see some leading right there, spreading up the tube. If that's happening, accuracy is going to get worse and worse as you go along, which might also explain why things were going downhill for you. All speculation, but a place to start.

  3. #3
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Kachemak Bay Alaska
    Posts
    4,214

    Default

    I have some older Winchester brass that I found out in the shop. I will clean that up and try annealing the mouths. It seems to be a lot softer.
    I also need to find a few 454 diameter slugs just to see how they do. The 452 slugs were not filling up the grooves in the bore.
    It would be nice to try 10 or 15 before I decide on that diameter.
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
    Experimental Hand-Loader, NRA Life Member
    http://site.dragonflyaero.com

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Float Pilot View Post
    ...The 452 slugs were not filling up the grooves in the bore....
    Bingo. That's usually death on accuracy, and nasty for leading too.

  5. #5
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Kachemak Bay Alaska
    Posts
    4,214

    Default

    Yeah I managed to get some light in there and saw a lot of lead within 3 inches of the chamber. So the slugs are skidding for a little bit and not biting into the rifling enough.

    Oddly enough there are not a whole lot of lead slugs in stock at Midway. And many of the bulk casters like Montana bullets use bevel base bullet moulds. ( Sorry I spell it the old way in the Kings English) It would be nice to find some with a good flat base.

    When I was up in Los Anchorage last week all I saw was .452 diameter slugs in any stores that carried projectiles.
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
    Experimental Hand-Loader, NRA Life Member
    http://site.dragonflyaero.com

  6. #6

    Default

    You might try Beartooth. Excellent bullets priced right. Several of theirs are available in .454. Haven't ordered from them in a few years, but quick service when I did.

  7. #7
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Kachemak Bay Alaska
    Posts
    4,214

    Default

    The rifling twist rate is listed as being 1 in 26. Kinda slow....

    And get this,,, I just slugged the grooves and they are 0.452.5 !!!!!

    No wonder my .452 and 453 bullets just skidded down the bore.
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
    Experimental Hand-Loader, NRA Life Member
    http://site.dragonflyaero.com

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Float Pilot View Post
    The rifling twist rate is listed as being 1 in 26. Kinda slow....
    Slowish, anyway. Probably won't be able to launch cigars with it, but I doubt that's why you wanted the 73. I got a 1:16 put on my 44 wildcat (45-70 case), and there's such a thing as too fast, as well. I've never found a .429/.430 bullet that's too long for it, but it sure prefers weights over 300 grains to lighter. And moving fast. For my needs 1:20 would have been better I bet, just show I could do better with lighter bullets going slower for fun shooting, too. Pretty sure it would still do well with 300's and up. Ah, pondering. Gotta do it with guns.

    Your 0.4525 bore is a poser. I wonder if it will do all that well with jacketed bullets even.

  9. #9
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Kachemak Bay Alaska
    Posts
    4,214

    Default

    Well still no 454 bullets yet.
    I found some old .452 Keith style 250 grain SWCs and squeezed them a little in a vise until they were .453.
    They were a wee bit softer and had a good flat base instead of a beveled base.


    So being desperate to get out of other chores I ran out to the range again.
    Groups at 26 yards. Rifle rested on sandbag. The 5.5 inch SAA was modified weaver stance leaning against a bench.

    18.0 grains AA-5744
    20in Rifle = 1,055 fps (1.5inch grp) 5.5 in pistol= 796 fps (2.0 in gp)

    9.5 grains AA #5
    20in rifle= 1,000 fps (1.25 inch grp) 5.5in SAA= 740fps (1.0 in grp)

    10.5 grains HS-6
    20in Rifle= 1,050fps (1.30 in grp) 5.5in SAA= 800fps ( 2.25in grp)

    Still lots of gas blow back along the case wall. BUT, just a flat base seems to help with the rifle barrel, so I'll bet some .454 slugs will really work out.
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
    Experimental Hand-Loader, NRA Life Member
    http://site.dragonflyaero.com

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •