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Thread: Chuitna strip coal mine

  1. #1
    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
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    Default Chuitna strip coal mine

    I saw the booth at the GASS and just googled this up http://chuitna.org/

    Sorry if this already a topic on this forum, I did search it some and came up blank so thought that it should get some air time -

    What's everyones thoughts on this coal mine ?

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    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    I know there are dozens of useless forums on this site, but this should be in resource management, not fisheries, imo.

    Like Pebble, it's State land. Let the process go forward. I'd like to see mining taxes raised since the mines being permitted today are mega-mines, but I'm generally pro-business/mining.

    It can't be 'pristine' since that term was reserved ANWR, and 'wrong place, wrong mine,' was the Pebble moniker. Just can't label every mine or every place as pristine or inappropriate for mining and shout it down. Rather see the coal burned here, not shipped to Asia.

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    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
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    Ok - wrong forum. Mods maybe can move.

    I am not for a strip mine on any salmon river. I am totally against exporting to asia.


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    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    This is the latest news article I could find on a GOOGLE search. It's dated August 2015

    http://peninsulaclarion.com/news/201...a-water-rights

    Anyone seen or heard anything more recent
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    This one's a no brainer and cannot be allowed.
    Moving a salmon stream for a coal mine isn't right.
    Coal is plentiful elsewhere and there is no way the river will be back to normal at anytime.
    I am pro business and pro mining but this one doesn't pass the smell test.
    I'm still undecided on pebble based on what their final plans will be stating their full intentions with the mine.
    If it's cyanide heap leaching and a Big(gigantic) holding pond for waste water then no.
    But if there is a safer way then my ears are open.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

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    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
    This one's a no brainer and cannot be allowed.
    Quote Originally Posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
    Moving a salmon stream for a coal mine isn't right.


    http://www.alaskapublic.org/2016/10/04/chuitna-mine-application-changes-may-muddy-a-lengthy-process/


    "Mining through a salmon stream to produce coal for a nonexistent markets is about as irresponsible as it gets. Reject the Chuitna project!"
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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  8. #8
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    I find it difficult to understand how this can be financially viable given the global shift away from coal?
    If and that's a big "if" the state approves this there better be some HUGE reclamation bonds in place to fix what they destroy over there.
    If this company folds I don't want to see them leaving their mess behind without the $$$ to pay for the cleanup.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

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    This would be the first time that a company would be allowed to total mine through a salmon stream with the promise of restoration (which most biologist think is a crazy statement). This is a dangerous precedent for Alaska if allowed to go through. For more information Cook Inlet Keepers out of Homer has a ton of information on this project. I think their web page will answer most questions.

  10. #10

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    I would like to see the damages at Wasilla Cr. headwaters addressed successfully; right here where such claims as to 'the promise of restoration' might be demonstrated.

    After actively advocating for salmon habitat just here in the neighborhood for 30 yrs., seeing the ongoing degradation, such as USFWS has documented in the Knik, and now having reached extremes on the State 'managed' Mat Su Moose Range, I'm not buying into any such 'promises' whatsoever.
    Fantasy. Even if remotely possible, not at all likely and would set a very bad precedent.

    We seem to take stupid steps that just cannot or will not be successfully undone - and learn the lessons way too slowly.
    "Punish the monkey - let the organ grinder go" - Mark Knopfler

  11. #11
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 68 Bronco View Post
    I would like to see the damages at Wasilla Cr. headwaters addressed successfully; right here where such claims as to 'the promise of restoration' might be demonstrated.

    After actively advocating for salmon habitat just here in the neighborhood for 30 yrs., seeing the ongoing degradation, such as USFWS has documented in the Knik, and now having reached extremes on the State 'managed' Mat Su Moose Range, I'm not buying into any such 'promises' whatsoever.
    Fantasy. Even if remotely possible, not at all likely and would set a very bad precedent.

    We seem to take stupid steps that just cannot or will not be successfully undone - and learn the lessons way too slowly.
    The problems you speak of are from multiple users from various user groups.
    Kind of hard to pin the cost on any one individual or group.
    But a mine can pay reclamation bonds up front.
    Money set aside for restoration that they only get back if the state finds they did a good job restoring things as close to natural as possible.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
    The problems you speak of are from multiple users from various user groups.
    Kind of hard to pin the cost on any one individual or group.
    But a mine can pay reclamation bonds up front.
    Money set aside for restoration that they only get back if the state finds they did a good job restoring things as close to natural as possible.
    Your point basically correct, of course. And me, slightly off topic on my post.
    (Although the damages I am speaking of are caused by primarily one user group.) The State's track record of caring for habitat on land they manage is less than stellar and does not instill much confidence. Plans are written with habitat protections included, but prove ineffective time after time - mostly due to the fact that they are unenforceable and abusers are incorrigible.

    My point being that getting successful restoration of large scale salmon habitat destruction is a proven stretch - and a very costly one.
    In all cases it is best to not allow destroying it in the first place (incompatible uses), but that requires foresight and a grasp of historical cases.
    "Punish the monkey - let the organ grinder go" - Mark Knopfler

  13. #13
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 68 Bronco View Post
    My point being that getting successful restoration of large scale salmon habitat destruction is a proven stretch - and a very costly one.
    In all cases it is best to not destroy it in the first place, but that requires foresight and a grasp of historical cases.
    Agreed and I can't say I support this mine in any way.
    Just hoping any action by the state will include a big enough reclamation bond placed by the coal mine to cover proper reclamation. I'm talking 10-20 million+ maybe more.
    Though I will say I too don't believe they can repair/rebuild a salmon stream.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

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    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
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    10-20M$ is not even close to enough. A superfund site is a very costly process. These for profit orgs only care about bottom lines.


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    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullelkklr View Post
    10-20M$ is not even close to enough. A superfund site is a very costly process. These for profit orgs only care about bottom lines.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Your probably right. I've never dealt with such things and forget how far a million dollars goes (or doesn't) these days.
    Either way I don't support this mine and feel they need huge reclamation bonds before anything could even be thought about.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

  16. #16
    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 68 Bronco View Post
    My point being that getting successful restoration of large scale salmon habitat destruction is a proven stretch - and a very costly one.

    In ALL cases it is best to not allow destroying it in the first place
    (incompatible uses), but that requires foresight and a grasp of historical cases.

    Give that man a GOLD star
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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    The KeenEye MD

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    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
    I find it difficult to understand how this can be financially viable given the global shift away from coal?
    China/Asia isn't shifting away from coal.

    I'm all for the Chuitna coal mine. Sick of environutjobs shouting down ALL development. Tax the heck out of it, if you must to replenish coffers, but I'm sick of seeing enviro's getting EVERYTHING they want. Drill baby, drill.

  18. #18
    Supporting Member bullbuster's Avatar
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    Let me list the ways....that I am against this development:

    1. Coal burned in Asia sends dangerous pollutants to Alaska.
    2. The mine site is the main moose breeding area in this area.
    3. The loss of this salmon run will impact more than just fishermen. A large bear population depends on it. (moose calves will then become prey) The beluga whales and seals depend on it. Eagles, otters and other predators depend on it. Rainbow trout depend on it.
    4. Pumping 7 MILLION gallons of mine waste into the inlet (as permitted) will impact all of Cook Inlet fisheries.
    5. Roads, mancamps and airstrips will ruin a delicate ecosystem. The area is a giant wetlands with some high ground ridges.
    6. The area is very isolated by the Big Su, the Tordrillo Mtns and Cook Inlet. To wipe out the game means it may never come back.
    7. PacRim coal is owned by the Hunt brothers out of Texas. Their first priority is profit. Fish and game populations are of little concern.
    8. 12 miles of conveyor belt will spread toxic coal dust across huge swaths of the land. This will kill vegetation and impact game populations far from the mine. It will run along the only human population center in Beluga, covering everything and everybody in toxic dust. (remember Seward!)
    9. The mine site is very near the headwaters of the Beluga River. The wetlands underground current runs to that river. Any pollutants from the mine will have an underground pathway to a separate watershed.

    Coal is dirty to mine, dirty to transport and dirty to use. Encourage China to look for alternative sources of energy. The world is awash in natural gas. Just a thought.
    10. Destroying a unique ecosystem for the profit of the Hunts and the convenience of the Chinese is very short sighted.
    11. The restoration of a major salmon stream is unproven and unlikely to be successful. (PacRim will likely pull the coal out and then go bankrupt, as many in history have done)

    Realistic development is one thing. This mine and the promise to invent a new river is another.

    Stop the mine!!!
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  19. #19
    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    Default Stupid is as stupid does....

    If Alaskans cannot stand united against this ridiculously STUPID project.... just what in the h3!! can they stand for?
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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  20. #20
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    Hay Brian, if you are reading these posts, I rest my case.

    Ian Malcolm- you were so preoccupied if you could, you never stopped to think if you should.
    "Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science"

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