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Thread: Proposal 97 Carried as Amended- Changes to Draw Applications?

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    Member AK Wonderer's Avatar
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    Default Proposal 97 Carried as Amended- Changes to Draw Applications?

    Does anyone have any further information regarding Prop 97? Prop 97 was a request to: "Establish some type of bonus point or preference point system for the Alaskan drawing permit hunts."

    This prop is listed as Carried as Amended. The brief description form the Preliminary Actions Taken sheet states:
    "The board amended proposal 97 with substitute language (RC93) to allow applicants to apply for six drawing permit hunts and apply multiple times for a single hunt"

    Does anyone know how to find Substitute Language RC93? Are they now allowing you to apply for six sheep tags and apply for one individual tag up to six times?

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    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    I could be wrong, hard to understand those folks some time. But the way I understood the conversation was they are going to allow up to 6 choices instead of 3 except for moose that would remain 3 bull and 3 cow, and you could put in all 6 for the same hunt for 6 chances at the same hunt. Again I could have this all wrong and they talk in circles sometimes and there was a lot of props this year that are very similar. Not a point thing, just an expanded draw the way it is with more chances.
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    Member AK Wonderer's Avatar
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    Hmm, not sure this will offer the big bump in your draw chances. Yes there will be some guys who dump all six chances at one tag and may see a very slight odds increase. Let's take DS165 with a 2% chance of draw. Last year there were 869 applicants for 20 tags. Now if you had six opportunities and everyone else still only had one, your chance of draw increases to almost 14%. Say everyone who applied last time dedicates 2 of there chances to this tag and you apply 6 times. Your odds now drop to 7%. In working a couple of numbers, in order to see an increase of odds a person will have to be applying 4-6 times for the same hunt and hope others aren't doing the same. I think most guys will apply at least twice for the hunts they want because one application will only lessen your odds lower than they are now.

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    Member oakman's Avatar
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    keeping all of the hunting stuff separated, things like this are very interesting to me. Ak wonderer, you point out all the reasons why. This is a very dynamic change. It's hard to understand and predict what others will do and how it will impact you and your choices. Perhaps we think that everyone will dump 6 choices onto DS123...then the really smart people will put in for DS102 and instead of seeing their chances go from 2% (or whatever they are now) up to 12%, due to all the applications going to DS123, now you have a 50% chance at getting Tok Sheep.

    I think if this is indeed what happened, it will take a few years for everything to settle out. I'd guess people will be chasing the bubble for a while.

    I like the idea. More choices, the chance to really put all of your eggs into one basket, and more revenue for F&G that is raised voluntarily.

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    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    This is MY understanding of their thinking,, but the tone was that a point system would favor older hunters and younger hunter would become disenfranchised, that it would farther reduce already low new hunter stats.

    They had concerns that if they allowed 6 chances for bull moose that the cow hunts would go undersubscribed, as they have in the past and that was why they allowed more chances for moose to encourage more hunters to take the cows they wanted harvested.

    Much can be learned from listening to the BOG process, both public testimony and more so their deliberations. I would recommend anyone that is thinking of submitting a proposal to listen in for a cycle. This would give one knowledge to greatly improve their chance of getting a proposal approved.

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    Member Yellowknife's Avatar
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    Newsminer explains it this morning


    http://www.newsminer.com/news/local_...e6372edea.html

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Hmm...very mixed feelings about this one. It sure will be interesting to see how the odds for various hunts shake out over the next few years.

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    To me it just seems like a revenue grab. Most will put in for the max tags available and I doubt the net odds really change much.


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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK flyster View Post
    To me it just seems like a revenue grab. Most will put in for the max tags available and I doubt the net odds really change much.


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    Seems like that's at least part of it, though with the state's financial situation, I'm in favor of ADF&G getting more revenue. Every $5 we spend on an application comes with another $15 in matching P-R funds that we've already contributed as fees on guns, ammo, tackle and such. I can't say I'm thrilled that my application costs will likely double (and then double again once my boys are old enough), but I want well funded research and management.

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    Perfect! I like it, I like it a lot… there will be some strategy involved around trends and popular draw hunts if you understand it…..

    I can’t see this dropping the odds on hunts like Unimak, Kodiak Aliuilik, Red & Karluk lake draws etc. Sheep 123, Tok 1st hunt, Delta 2nd etc. Those folks who took these as first choices picks will most likely drop all 6 picks there too, which drops the odds on the past 2nd and 3rd choices…..just my thoughts!
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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramhunter View Post
    Those folks who took these as first choices picks will most likely drop all 6 picks there too, which drops the odds on the past 2nd and 3rd choices…..just my thoughts!
    Yep, this will likely improve odds of winning "2nd tier" tags while making it potentially more difficult to win the most coveted tags (unless one drops all 6 choices on those ones, but they'll still likely be ~1%). I think I really like it for some moose and caribou possibilities, still not sure on sheep and goat. Certainly have some thinking to do before November.

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    I like it. I can throw all my sheep or caribou tags at the same hunt, one that I'll most likely go on. Instead of planning three different hunts per species

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    Quote Originally Posted by AK flyster View Post
    To me it just seems like a revenue grab. Most will put in for the max tags available and I doubt the net odds really change much.


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    I know quite a few people that will only put in for a few tags each year in the current system. Like moose tag right near their cabin, etc. I feel like I put in for a lot, but I don't put in for everything. I will probably double my donation every year though because of this.

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    Member ak_cowboy's Avatar
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    ...to allow applicants to apply for six drawing permit hunts and apply multiple times for a single hunt"
    Read through this again, are we only allowed six hunts total, or six hunts per species?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ak_cowboy View Post
    Read through this again, are we only allowed six hunts total, or six hunts per species?
    I understood them to mean 6 for each species.
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    On the surface this sounds OK to me but there is more to learn. As far as it being a money grab, I doubt if there is much revenue left after administrative costs....very doubtful!......I and friends would like to have seen the fees doubled to take advantage of more Pittman Robertson funds that are not recovered.

    We would all like to see more sheep on the mountain but we just don't have the research data to tell us how to do it. I have noticed that the coyote scat I encounter in the hills, often has white hair and even lamb hooves in it. IMO the coyote is the predator population that has greatly increased since the days of Frank Glaser's market hunting of sheep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VernAK View Post
    On the surface this sounds OK to me but there is more to learn. As far as it being a money grab, I doubt if there is much revenue left after administrative costs....very doubtful!......I and friends would like to have seen the fees doubled to take advantage of more Pittman Robertson funds that are not recovered.

    We would all like to see more sheep on the mountain but we just don't have the research data to tell us how to do it. I have noticed that the coyote scat I encounter in the hills, often has white hair and even lamb hooves in it. IMO the coyote is the predator population that has greatly increased since the days of Frank Glaser's market hunting of sheep.
    Fees are not under the control of the BOG,, there is a Bill now awaiting approval to raise fees, but the decision is in the hands of the politicians and I agree with you that there needs to be more money for research and as a state we are leaving too much in matching funds on the table.
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    hmm. Like Brian I need to ponder this but one first impression is that this allows the hunter to take some action in potentially increasing his odds if he so desires.
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    I like this new approach to drawing, simply because I am more interested in where I hunt than what I hunt. This incentivizes me to focus on drawing the hunt that I really want to do, and I'm less likely to draw a hunt that I'm ambivalent about, but that you really want.

    And, even though I've lived just about every year of my life in Alaska, and I've applied for draw hunts most of them, I have absolutely zero interest in going to a points system.

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