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Thread: Boat Rental Questions

  1. #1

    Default Boat Rental Questions

    I've been trying to find out the laws on renting a boat. I guide extensively out of Craig, Alaska. I'm starting up a small boat rental business in addition to my guiding.

    Now I seem to recall a law recently passed that states how much (or none at all) information could be passed from the rental boat owner to the person renting the boat? I've decided to provide zero halibut spot information, due to the generous limits to unguided anglers, but would I legally be able to inform those renting of current hot salmon bites?

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    I know nothing about this stuff, but may I suggest you contact the FED's on this , they are the ones with the law's on this stuff ,
    the fed's fish an game controls the halibut catch , this forum has to many am chair cops to get it striate SID

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    Charterboat Operator Abel's Avatar
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    Here's what gets me....Why is it that we can poke and prod pilots about sheep, goat and everything else hunting and fishing for hot go to spots and we all do it, we all know we all do it. But when it comes to giving hunt info to clients if you're a transporter or giving unguided fisherman fishing info, we have suddenly crossed the illegal guiding line?

    Or how about this one that always comes up. I draw a sweet sheep, moose or bigfoot tag. Buddy comes on hunt and I have a bad shot and need an assist subduing said animal. Buddy is now illegally hunting as it's my tag right??

    My buddy has already tagged his 2 halibut for the day, can he help me claim this monster I have hooked up by leadering and sticking it?

    Rant over

    I thank you'd be fine giving basic info out. Bait shops do it, what shop can't you walk into and ask where the latest bite is going down and on what, whether it's river, ocean or the lake fishing. If that was the case they can bust all us Capt's on here as we give reports out all the time, show guys how to rig baits, give all kinds of specific info. I wouldn't be storing GPS hot spots in the boats though, or telling them to "follow me".
    Life's to short for an ugly boat

    Blaze N Abel Charters
    Kodiak, AK
    www.alaska-fish.com
    https://www.facebook.com/BlazeNAbelCharters/?fref=ts

  4. #4

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    I'll contact the feds. I seem to remember a law being passed that prevents unguided fisherman from being assisted on the water by a guide in another boat. But I can't find it anywhere! Maybe it didn't pass the BOF? Halibut scares me to death, and they'll be completely on their own when it comes to halibut.

    I plan on providing a book with 50ish salmon spots detailed and how to fish them. I plan on offering zero on the water assistance of any kind. I just want to know if I can tell them the night before where the fishing was hot the previous day.

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    The proposals went back and forth a couple of times. The latest I've heard is your are allowed to offer any and all VERBAL assistance you can manage. However, you are not allowed to offer PHYSICAL assistance. The issue in the past had been that a guide boat would accompany a group of rental boats to the fishing grounds; and get on and off the rental boats throughout the course of the day to assists with anchoring, subduing fish, etc. This used to be a grey area, but is now DEFINED as guiding.

    My personal policy is that I do not assist with FISHING, even verbally, once the boat has reached the fishing grounds. I don't accompany my rental boat to the fishing grounds, but I do try to keep an eye on weather and will give them a call if I think there is a safety concern.

    I do a pretty thorough safety and vessel operations orientation with each renter the evening before their rental. I have a GPS with quite a few fishing spots which they are welcome to. After the orientation is complete, I offer whatever fishing reports and techniques I have.

    I'm based out of Homer. Feel free to email me if you have more questions: info@BayesBoatRental

    I'll also be doing a presentation at the Great Alaska Sports show on Do-it-yourself halibut fishing in Kachemak Bay. Stop by and say hello if you're in town.

    -David

  6. #6

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    David,

    Thanks so much. I'm in Craig, so I won't make the show. I might email you a few questions.

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    Ok, sounds good. Looks like I messed up my email in the previous message. info@bayesboatrental.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by 270ti View Post
    I've been trying to find out the laws on renting a boat. I guide extensively out of Craig, Alaska. I'm starting up a small boat rental business in addition to my guiding.
    What sizes/types of boats will you be renting? I might be your first customer next summer!

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Zeek View Post
    What sizes/types of boats will you be renting? I might be your first customer next summer!

    25' Almar, twin 150s. Also have a 23' Pacific Skiff w/ 200HP. Both boats done right.

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    I'll jump on the 25' twin. I tried to PM you, but your inbox is full. Dug up the most current regulations I could find & wanted to give you my number so I can tell you in detail what I found.

    Short version appears to be that the restrictions are only on halibut fishing. You ought to be good on sharing salmon information.

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    Cleared it.

  12. #12

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    270ti - Will you be up and running by May, as I will be there at the end of May and would like to find out about renting the Almar.

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    Sponsor offshore's Avatar
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    I'm not sure about SE, but I had a lengthy conversation with ADF&G about this topic regarding rentals on Prince William Sound. The notion I took from the discussion was that passing salmon information was probably not a problem but providing specific halibut information could be considered "guiding" by some enforcement and would probably lead to new regulations if rental boats became an issue (fleet of boats following around one CHP holder). I basically abide by Big Game Transporter rules. We don't give information which would "direct the trip". I was also told that we should delete waypoints from the GPS after each rental. Seems excessive, but I can see where people have taken advantage of loopholes.

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    Here's snippets of the new regs/laws that I was able to find, with citations on where I got them from so folks can look this up for themselves. I've emphasized the parts that I think are relevant.

    I think it means that giving salmon information is fine. I also think it means that a lodge operator can share information on halibut fishing back at the lodge when the fishing day is over. You'd probably have to consult an attorney to get a definitive answer though.

    ************************************************** ********************

    Sport fishing guide services, for purposes of §§ 300.65(d) and 300.67, means assistance, for compensation or with the intent to receive compensation, to a person who is sport fishing, to take or attempt to take halibut by accompanying or physically directing the sport fisherman in sport fishing activities during any part of a charter vessel fishing trip. Sport fishing guide services do not include services provided by a crew member, as defined at § 300.61.

    50 C.F.R. § 300.61



    Charter vessel, for purposes of §§ 300.65, 300.66, and 300.67, means a vessel used while providing or receiving sport fishing guide services for halibut.
    Charter vessel angler, for purposes of §§ 300.65, 300.66, and 300.67, means a person, paying or non-paying, receiving sport fishing guide services for halibut.

    Charter vessel fishing trip, for purposes of §§ 300.65, 300.66, and 300.67, means the time period between the first deployment of fishing gear into the water from a charter vessel by a charter vessel angler and the offloading of one or more charter vessel anglers or any halibut from that vessel.


    50 C.F.R. § 300.61


    SUMMARY: NMFS issues regulations that revise Federal regulations regarding sport fishing guide services for Pacific halibut in International Pacific Halibut Commission Regulatory Areas 2C (Southeast Alaska) and 3A (Central Gulf of Alaska). The regulations remove the requirement that a guided sport (charter) vessel guide be on board the same vessel as a charter vessel angler to meet the definition of providing sport fishing guide services. This final rule clarifies that all sport fishing for halibut in which anglers receive assistance from a compensated guide would be managed under charter fishery regulations, and all harvest (except halibut harvested under the Guided Angler Fish Program) would accrue toward charter allocations. This final rule aligns Federal regulations with State of Alaska regulations. This final rule makes additional minor changes to the regulatory text pertaining to the charter halibut fishery to maintain consistency in the regulations with these new definitions. This action is necessary to achieve the halibut fishery management goals of the North Pacific Fishery Management Council.

    DATES: Effective July 20, 2015.
    Pacific Halibut Fisheries; Revisions to Charter Halibut Fisheries Management in Alaska, 80 FR 35195-02


    This final rule adds a definition for “charter vessel” to Federal regulations at § 300.61. A charter vessel is defined as “a vessel used while providing or receiving sport fishing guide services for halibut.” Under this definition, a charter vessel guide will not be required to be on board the same vessel as the charter vessel angler to be providing sport fishing guide services. If an angler receives sport fishing guide services during a charter vessel fishing trip (i.e., the time between when gear is deployed and when one or more charter anglers or any harvested halibut are offloaded), even if it is from an adjacent or nearby vessel, that angler would be considered to be fishing from a charter vessel.

    Pacific Halibut Fisheries; Revisions to Charter Halibut Fisheries Management in Alaska, 80 FR 35195-02

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    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    I guess my question is why risk it at all?
    In this situation your serving as a boat rental not a guide service so why push your luck?
    One could certainly direct people to websites like this one to find out how/where to try fishing.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

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    what I see in this stuff if the rods are stored an you are not fishing an no guide / guides boat near you don't have a problem so if you are on shore
    [ land ] you can ask all the questions you want to any one , the rental operation can't go with you an tell /show you where fish , but back on land
    he can give you all the info you want because no rod's or gear are deployed it is all stored I think, SID

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    There can be GPS marks no trouble, or you can make a booklet with tips on when where, and what to use. The booklet can even be sold if you want to do that.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
    I guess my question is why risk it at all?
    In this situation your serving as a boat rental not a guide service so why push your luck?
    One could certainly direct people to websites like this one to find out how/where to try fishing.
    I guess I don't live in fear of my government like some do. There should be absolutely no risk at all and the laws should be clear. If it is legal to rent a boat, and add value by being able to provide fishing knowledge that I have, then I am going to do it.

  19. #19
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 270ti View Post
    I guess I don't live in fear of my government like some do. There should be absolutely no risk at all and the laws should be clear. If it is legal to rent a boat, and add value by being able to provide fishing knowledge that I have, then I am going to do it.
    I've known people who have had the feds make up rules on them.
    Or write bogus tickets they had to fight.
    I'd just as soon not push my luck with them.
    Not out of fear but I'd rather not have to deal with the aftermath and such.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

  20. #20
    Charterboat Operator Abel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 270ti View Post
    I guess I don't live in fear of my government like some do. There should be absolutely no risk at all and the laws should be clear. If it is legal to rent a boat, and add value by being able to provide fishing knowledge that I have, then I am going to do it.
    I'm with you on this one. I see it as no different than owning a bait/tackle shop or renting out fishing gear. If I rent a rod/reel to some tourist in Ketchikan and tell them the bridge is where the pinks are am I guiding now? Shouldn't matter the species.
    Life's to short for an ugly boat

    Blaze N Abel Charters
    Kodiak, AK
    www.alaska-fish.com
    https://www.facebook.com/BlazeNAbelCharters/?fref=ts

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