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Thread: Dall Sheep- Whole state going draw?

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    Default Dall Sheep- Whole state going draw?

    I have kind of taken a point of self-imposed isolation but there is a rumor going around that this is the last year of general over the counter dall sheep hunting.

    I was wondering if people knew if this was true?


    Sincerely,
    Thomas Kennedy

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    That would require action by the Board of Game, right? Is there a proposal before them in the current cycle to do such? I know that there was some hope that the sheep working group would come up with a consensus direction for sheep management, but according to those I've talked to, it seems that there is little agreement over what (if anything) should be done.

  3. #3

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    A fairly prominent hunting organizer and Alaskan Television personality has put forward on his facebook page that this is the last session of general over the counter sheep hunting. He seems to be more in the know so I thought that there might be some people from the Sheep working group that knew more about what was going to happen than I do.

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    I sure hope not, but I'm curious what the draw percentages would be if everyone had to apply for something. I'd imagine the numbers would be much higher than 3% or less like they are on most hunts. Also, if people were applying for say Unit 25 tags, that would have to mean fewer applicants for say 14C tags. It would probably mean fewer people hunting sheep overall, but the tags that we have right now would probably be easier to get.

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    Information about the sheep working group is available on the ADFG page under the Board of Game.

    http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm...sheepcomm.main

    The meetings are open to the public and you are encourage to attend. The next meeting will be in Fairbanks, with a date TBD, some time after the BOG meeting this spring.

    I was selected as a "public" member of the SWG.

    At this time, a drawing for everyone (both resident and NR), while an option, is not really on the table. I highly doubt we would get everyone to agree to it. A draw for NR has been proposed however. How we determine the number of permits issued and work out a system that will not put a serious burden on guides running business is the challenge. Its still early in the process and there are lots of things to consider.

    One option that seems highly plausible at the moment is a 5 day resident only season, but there are some details left to work out.

    Generating revenue for sheep management and research has been a major topic. We have so little data that its hard to make informed decisions when we don't know what the ramifications will be.

    We've suggested that residents pay a nominal fee ($25 maybe) for a sheep permit or "stamp" which will be directed towards sheep management and research. This has to pass through the legislature however. In addition, you may be able to apply for up to 6 draw permits next year. This is likely going to happen as its an administrative change. The cost of each draw chance may increase to $10, but that is unknown and has to also go to the legislature as well.

    We are open to any unique or innovative ideas. Simply saying lets just do this, or that, has ramifications for some us. Each area of the state also has unique issues, so all decisions should be carefully considered.

    Prop 207 was rehashed, with no consensus, and it will likely stand as is, but may have some clarifications for enforcement. I doubt we'll revisit it, as the discussion was pretty much split across the room.

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    Wow great ideas bambi. Raising fees for sheep surveys and research has been needed for decades. Its especially needed with these crazy unpredictable winters. Dont forget to triple out of state tag fees which are grossly low. Thanks for the update.
    I come home with an honestly earned feeling that something good has taken place. It makes no difference whether I got anything, it has to do with how the day was spent. Fred Bear

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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    There are quite a few sheep proposals from the public before the BOG at the upcoming statewide meeting next month, including the BOG-generated proposal which is #48 in the statewide proposal book.

    The Dept had this to say about the BOG proposal 48: "
    The effect of this proposal would depend on which, if any, of the alternatives were adopted. Most of the alternatives would result in reduced resident and nonresident hunting opportunity."

    Here's a link to the ADFG comments on all the sheep proposals, where I copied that quote. This is a cool way to look at the sheep proposals in the context of Dept Analysis and Recommendations:
    http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static-f/...dept_sheep.pdf

    I'm also on the sheep working group. In some ways it's like going home to a big family reunion or holiday. You love everyone there but you don't all agree on everything and never will, and there is always a crazy uncle <grin>. So as far as consensus, well it's been extremely hard to actually get to allocation discussions, and keep in mind there are quite a few guides on the group who naturally want to protect their livelihoods. Limited draw permit system for nonresident sheep hunters compared to Over-The-Counter tags obviously affects number of clients one can expect. In another sense though I did get the impression that guides in general know something needs to happen, and they will coalesce around something that doesn't limit residents. Maybe. Perhaps.

    In any case, though, it appears the working group is not finished. Both the BOG and the Dept have said they wanted to wait for recommendations from the group. So if the group won't finish before the statewide meeting, not sure if that means the Board will defer the sheep props at the upcoming meeting, vote them down, just defer their own, make some changes, or what they will do.

    FYI, comments on the sheep proposals or any other statewide proposals are due March 4th. You can comment via the BOG website. And you can always show up at the meeting March 18-28th in Fbks.

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    Mark,

    Thanks for participating in the sheep conferences.......I know it can be frustrating at times and consensus is hard to find but it seems like there is some important progress.

    Thanks again!

    Vern

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    Consensus requires that all parties be willing to give a little in order to work toward a common cause.

    Based on what I have read and heard, there appear to be a few that sill desire the "other" group to give in, in order to protect their own interest and desires. Hopefully as the meetings progress, everyone will begin to see that in order to solve the issues and begin to improve the overall hunting, they may need to feel a little pain as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaboku68 View Post
    A fairly prominent hunting organizer and Alaskan Television personality has put forward on his facebook page that this is the last session of general over the counter sheep hunting. He seems to be more in the know so I thought that there might be some people from the Sheep working group that knew more about what was going to happen than I do.
    Who might that be? I'd like to see what he has to say.

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    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Default Dall Sheep- Whole state going draw?

    The "working group" has been a ridiculous non-productive fuster-cluck, and the BOG has proven it's inability to show any leadership whatsoever.

    $250,000 just p I ssed away.
    Alaska Board of Game 2015 tour... "Kicking the can down the road"
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    Quote Originally Posted by ERDucker View Post
    Consensus requires that all parties be willing to give a little in order to work toward a common cause.

    Based on what I have read and heard, there appear to be a few that sill desire the "other" group to give in, in order to protect their own interest and desires. Hopefully as the meetings progress, everyone will begin to see that in order to solve the issues and begin to improve the overall hunting, they may need to feel a little pain as well.
    That's the problem. **** them all its supposed to be about the sheep

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    Quote Originally Posted by bear View Post
    that's the problem. **** them all its supposed to be about the sheep

    sheep lives matter!

  14. #14

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    Years and years of written/public comments, hundreds of proposals, working groups, hunter surveys and the Board of Game has yet to make any decision at all that really impacts the current problem regarding sheep hunting in Alaska. I hate to sound like a debbie downer but it's hard to see that they support the decisions/opinions of Alaska residents at all based upon their record. If they really did support the majority opinion of Alaska Residents something should have been done a long long time ago. I guess if we want any solution to the problem we'll have to go around the Board and put it in a Ballot Initiative.

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    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    ^^^^^^what he said!!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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    Quote Originally Posted by homerdave View Post
    ^^^^^^what he said!!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Dave.... What actually is the main reason for animals in certain areas to go to a draw? Seeing that the way our sheep on the Kenai have been for quite awhile now, other than the latest areas that have gone to permit only, I would have thought by now the whole Kenai would have gone to a draw. Does access to the area/s have something to do with it as well? Thanks...
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

  17. #17

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    Wouldn't hurt my feelings if the entire state went to a permit drawing for a limited number of years. I'm sure it's not an end all be all answer but it's one thing that I believe most hard core sheep hunters would agree on. There are many opportunities for alpine style hunting in Alaska for animals other than sheep, just have to get out and beat the hills for it.

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    sheep surveys for parts of south central showed good numbers and no real alarming issues with sheep populations or trends. drawing idea is motivated by people wanting to be alone, not totally because the sheep need it. some areas may, but not all of them. i think BOG sees a bit bigger picture with the sheep numbers.
    but folks cried for more moose in unit 16 and now we are killing bear cubs and have the most liberalized bear regulations alaskas ever seen.not because the moose were gone, but because more people wanted one. so who knows what they are willing to do for the holy sheep. but when they do drop the hammer on a decision, i'm betting NO ONE will like it( except the guys who draw a tag obviously..lol). even if it goes draw, it will be severly limited opportunity.
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    Hope it doesn't go to a draw for everyone. That's way too drastic of a measure for what could be a simple fix in my mind. For the most part sheep hunting in Alaska is okay. They just need to address a few specific problems to make it better (like unit 19C and 20A). Cutting the harvest of sheep by non-residents I think would do the most, something reasonable like what the feds do in the brooks ~25% total harvest on a unit by unit basis. Make it registration tag for non-res and shut down the unit by EO as soon as the non-resident quota is reached. Perhaps that and limit guides to 2 clients in the field at a time for Dall sheep hunting.

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    Member 4merguide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    drawing idea is motivated by people wanting to be alone, not totally because the sheep need it. some areas may, but not all of them. i think BOG sees a bit bigger picture with the sheep numbers..
    The reason I am curious is because of what I've seen down here. All of the areas for sheep, and goat for that matter, that have gone to permit only have been near the road with easy access. Other areas, although with suffering sheep populations, are still open via harvest ticket, but pretty much are accessed by fly in or a pretty healthy hike to get to them. Most the goat registration areas that open up, if they do, and if I remember correctly, are also not so easy to access.
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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