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Thread: Idea for dealing with Foreign Poachers

  1. #1
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    Default Idea for dealing with Foreign Poachers

    I'm presenting this idea to you on this forum since I technically am not an Alaskan citizen, though I am an Alaskan property owner...and thus have a stake in the Alaskan fisheries...okay, onto the subject at hand:

    My Dad came up with this idea last year after witnessing multiple violations from various German, Swiss, and French fishermen. Please understand that I am not a rascist or bigot, and for stating this idea I am ready to be called every name in the book and run out of this forum forever, since my idea is probably not "politically correct". That is the price I may pay, and I am willing to do so. And I acknowlegde that plenty of Americans violate the rules on a consistent basis. Although, in my 14+ years of combat fishing experience, I've never seen a group (stereotype coming soon) of fishermen that violate the fishing laws like the Germans, Swiss, and French typically do. Vast overlimits, possession violations, and snagging/keeping seem to be the most prevelant issues that occur with these folks. Not to mention that a lot of these folks are selling their catch back in Europe, which I believe is against the law for the rest of us to do.

    Anyways, my Dad's idea was that any foreigner that is issued a game violation would not be allowed back into the state to fish/hunt ever again, period. Whether their name/passport goes on a list and they are denied a license or denied entry into the state/country, somehow they should be penalized with a meaningful penalty to discourage them and others from willful violations. Now, I know that this may seem harsh to many, and some of you will get all excited because it would be unfair, since Americans just get a ticket and can go back to fishing the next day....blah blah blah. Certainly, I feel that Americans should also face some sort of penalty, but from my experience the foreign groups that I mentioned at times seem almost to operate in a clandestine effort to rob the Alaskan fisheries. I've have many of them confide to me that they receive a substantial price (somewhere around $100+/plate...euros maybe?) for their fillets back in European Restuarants.

    Thus, my Dad's idea was for a grassroots campaign to contact Alaskan Senators and Congressman to lobby for the idea of blacklisting foreign fish and game violators. Sorry for the longwinded lead-up to a simple idea.

    Okay, let the games begin.

    Sockeye Pete

  2. #2

    Angry Poaching Foreigners

    I too have seen this same thing happen and it's not just with Germans, Swiss, and Frenchman, there are others that are just as bad to include Americans. I've tried to say something to them when I see that happen but all they do is give you a dumb look like they don't understand you, but I know they do. Your idea sounds like a good start in the right direction but it does seem a bit harsh. Your right though, something needs to be done about it. It kills me seeing other people so blatantly break the law and nothing is done about it. I have the Fish and Game violation hotline # saved on my c/p so I can call them when i see it happen, I suggest that everyone else do the same.

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    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    I like the idea, too , but "forever, period" is a bit harsh. How about one full salmon life cycle... a science-based punishment to mitigate for their misdeeds. In this techno world, it would be easy enough to get those violations in the licensing database. Violation shows up for the next seven years and no license sold to the violator.

    For the habitual violators (US citizens included), the fines should be squared for a repeat offense, and cubed for a third time offense.

    Example 1st time $50, second offense $2500, and third time $125,000.
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone."
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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    I don't see it as being based on country of origin, and I'm sure there are many foreign visitors that do an excellent job of obeying the fishing regs. Also by definition poaching is taking fish or game in a forbidden area, so catching over the limit is not poaching.

    So getting down to the real issue, ie exceeding the limit, is the punishment and enforcement sufficient? I'd say a year suspension of license and forfeiture of gear as a pretty good sentence, no matter whether the person is from a foreign country or an Alsakan resident.

  5. #5

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    So if you catch 3 reds and you keep fishing, aren't those waters considered forbidden until the next day?

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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    Hadn't looked at it an that light. It's not that I condone game violations or folks going over the limit, rather that I found the title of the thread slightly inflamatory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AkHunter45
    So if you catch 3 reds and you keep fishing, aren't those waters considered forbidden until the next day?
    Can't you catch & release (except for kings) after keeping your limit? Or fish for other species (trout, dollies)?

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    New member Longbow's Avatar
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    Who is letting the French in anyway?

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    Member Alaska Gray's Avatar
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    First Issue sounds good, but I would make this apply to evreyone including Alaskans. This way it will not become a racial or international incident.

    Second you may keep fishing for reds catch and release, but if for some reason that fish dies it becomes yours and if you have 3 already now you just went over your limit.

  10. #10
    Member fullkurl's Avatar
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    Default If they look at you with a dumb look...

    when you confront about snagging etc, simply whip out the cell phone and call the fish cops or video them. Maybe that will prompt some ethics....or maybe "nyet".

  11. #11
    Member sayak's Avatar
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    I had understood that, according to new EU standards, foreign fishermen and hunters have a very difficult time bringing fish and game into their countries. I know it was a concern for some guides and outfitters.

    I personally have run into more problems with people who appear to be from the orient abusing fish and taking more than their one salmon at Ninilchik. They do this by going back up to their rental RV's and changing clothes, I guess assuming that the average white guy won't be able to tell the difference.

    Then you got your Rooskies at the Fishin' Hole, but that's another story.

  12. #12
    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    Cheaters come in many colors... so do Corkies and Spin-N-Glo's.

    (sorry couldn't resist!)
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone."
    http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/uploads/UP12710.jpg
    The KeenEye MD

  13. #13

    Thumbs up Great idea

    Quote Originally Posted by AkHunter45
    I too have seen this same thing happen and it's not just with Germans, Swiss, and Frenchman, there are others that are just as bad to include Americans. I've tried to say something to them when I see that happen but all they do is give you a dumb look like they don't understand you, but I know they do. Your idea sounds like a good start in the right direction but it does seem a bit harsh. Your right though, something needs to be done about it. It kills me seeing other people so blatantly break the law and nothing is done about it. I have the Fish and Game violation hotline # saved on my c/p so I can call them when i see it happen, I suggest that everyone else do the same.
    Great idea. I will take that advice. What is the number--I'll plug it in right now!
    Hike faster. I hear banjo music.

  14. #14

    Default Penalties

    Any and all penalties doled out, to Aliens should be consistant and exactly as what an alien to their country of origin would be if the incident happened there. It would be very easy for F&G to query the appropriate country's judicial system and find out what the max penalty is for the exact or as reasonably similar in nature. I have a hunch, the penalties would be much stiffer than what Alaska and America in general dole out. The Alien would not have a gripe, because it would be based on laws they are responsible to at home. This concept should be applied to all Fish and Game violations.

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    The problem with any new regs will be the same problem with existing regs. They aren't enforced. I can't count how many times I motor past foreigners at Alexander Creek and see three guys in the boat, three fish on a stringer in the water, and three lines in the water. I watch ADF&G biologists motor right past them, and I've seen troopers motor right past them, and they don't do a **** thing.

    For certain species in certain areas, foreigners should be required to fish with a registered guide, period. That would be easy to police, it would be good for the economy, and it would protect the resource.

    We need our bonehead government to bring the Brownshirts back. No Fish & Wildlife enforcement is a poacher's dream.

  16. #16

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    here is the number for F&G violations. 1-800-478-3377.

    the point about the guided fishing only is a good idea in theory. but think of the amount of times the guides will break the rules to keep clients happy. Now I know they will face a stiffer penalty, but that doens't deter some of them. Here is an example.

    Location: Russian River
    Case Number: 06-53080
    Type: Guide assist client in violation
    Text: On 6-19-06 John K. Hansen, age 22, of Vale, CO., was cited by
    Soldotna Wildlife Enforcement Troopers for guiding two clients who were
    fishing in closed waters of the Russian River and did not have valid
    2006 sport fishing licenses in possession. Arraignment is scheduled for
    July 14, 2006 in Kenai District Court.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Pid
    We need our bonehead government to bring the Brownshirts back. No Fish & Wildlife enforcement is a poacher's dream.
    ! ! ! EXACTLY ! ! ! The troopers are so understaffed and overwhelmed with other duties, they barely have time to make an effort at F & G enforcement.

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