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Thread: Whats the deal?

  1. #1
    Member c6 batmobile's Avatar
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    Default Whats the deal?

    So this weekend while out predator calling I ran into several unmarked traps/ traplines. No sign indicating a line in the area or marking on the trap. One was within 10 ft of a truck pull out of the richardson hwy. I had stopped to use the bathroom stumbled off the parking area a few feet into the bushes and **** near stepped in a set. Is this an acceptable practice? Something I should call in? I left them alone obviously not wanting to interfere but dang. Had I had a dog I was letting go to the bathroom or my kid stepped off the road a little it may be a different story I'm telling.
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    Legally traps nor lines have to be marked with the exception of a small part of the state in SE where traps must have tags . Setting that close to the road at a pull out is questionable ethically. You don't say what kind of trap or set or what road a main highway or something different. In the end if you could get there and it wasn't some obscure out of the way where no one ever travels kind of place the road set is very questionable ethically but not illegal . It is these kinds of sets that give trappers a bad name.
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    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    The Kenai national wildlife refuge has a trap tag requirement also and a class and required registration.
    But that's the only one I know of.

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otterman View Post
    It is these kinds of sets that give trappers a bad name.
    ...And just maybe they shouldn't be legitimized by being left in place. Just say'n. If I step off the shoulder of a roadway to take a leak and step in a trap set (or step in a trap anyplace else in a public right of way for that matter), it's coming home with me; stupid people and the laws that protect them be D&mned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    ...(or step in a trap anyplace else in a public right of way for that matter), it's coming home with me; stupid people and the laws that protect them be D&mned.
    SO if your on public land running a trail a trapper cut you step in his trail set a half mile off the road or more you're pulling the set and bringing it home with you?
    meats meat don't knock it till you try it

  6. #6
    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otterman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    ...And just maybe they shouldn't be legitimized by being left in place. Just say'n. If I step off the shoulder of a roadway to take a leak and step in a trap set (or step in a trap anyplace else in a public right of way for that matter), it's coming home with me; stupid people and the laws that protect them be D&mned.
    SO if your on public land running a trail a trapper cut you step in his trail set a half mile off the road or more you're pulling the set and bringing it home with you?
    Nope. I said public right of way. Public land not the same as PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. Public right of way means I have the right to travel there unimpeded. Anyone wants to meet me in court to complain that I stole their trap which I stepped in after they set in a public right of way, thereby endangering my safety, I'll gleefully take that challenge.

    There are many places in AK where trappers set on section line trails, which are public right's of way, and if those lines are clearly marked, there is a certain amount of mutual respect which occurs, especially if the trapper is smart about what he does and creates bypass trails around the leg hold sets or snares he places in the main trail.... But , if a trapper doesn't mark the line, or if he's stupid enough to set along a roadway within the right of way, or other traveled right of way trail without clearly marking his sets or trail, then all bets are off (and he has no grounds for complaint if I run over all his sets with my snowmachine....
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
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    Thanks for the clarification on that iofthetaiga and I understand your point of view. Just one more reason I am glad I live where I do plenty of room and time to trap without dealing with roads. I get on the snow machine in my yard and my first set is a half mile out in the water. Next one is 2 miles out away from the main trails on a private native allotment that I have permission to be on.
    meats meat don't knock it till you try it

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    Member AKMarmot's Avatar
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    C6, unfortunately is legal & the new breed of trappers are increasingly LAZY around the more populated areas. I would guess because it was on the Richardson (remote) there aren't many people around the area so they figure why not.
    I gave up hare hunting where we duck hunt because there were so many people setting the same way, 50 ft from the parking lot. Its beyond me why anyone would set there when they now there is heavy recreational use by hunters, skiers, & just people getting out during the winter. I don't mind walking a couple miles but I need to be able to get there without finding sets its not worth it. I guess before I complain I should follow the process and write a proposal for the BOG meeting next go round.

  9. #9
    Member c6 batmobile's Avatar
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    It was a small leg hold and a few snares. It was maybe, MAYBE, ten feet off the road in a well used turn off. I found it without even looking for a trap. It was the first tree to pee behind that had provided ample cover from the road view.

    Thanks for clarifying the legality portion of it. It is very frustrating to see people be so lazy and careless. Im not going to go out of my way to head back there and remove it but if I come across something so haphazardly set in the future I will be very inclined to remove it. This particular trap was not out of the realm of travel for a kid or dog needing to use the restroom on a remote stop just trying to get out of view of the hwy.
    Makin fur fins and feathers fly.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    . Anyone wants to meet me in court to complain that I stole their trap which I stepped in after they set in a public right of way, thereby endangering my safety, I'll gleefully take that challenge.
    While I generally agree that some traps are set inappropriately, this safety claim sounds a bit hysterical to me. Can you back up your contention with factual cases? It seems the issue is loose dogs and traps, not humans and traps.

  11. #11
    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by extrema View Post
    While I generally agree that some traps are set inappropriately, this safety claim sounds a bit hysterical to me. Can you back up your contention with factual cases? It seems the issue is loose dogs and traps, not humans and traps.
    No, it's not about hysteria, and it's not about loose pets, and I'm not quoting case law; there's no need. Right of Way means Right of Way; it one of the most unambiguous legal principals on the books. What I said was if it were me, I'd be happy to meet any trapper in court who feels he can trap in a public Right of Way with impunity and wants to challenge me in court on that point.

    Let's say I'm riding a snowmachine, or mushing a dog team, or riding a bicycle, or skijoring, or even walking a dog on a leash within a Right of Way, and I run into a wolf snare set and incur damage to self or personal property. Who do you think is going to be legally liable for said damage? Anybody who thinks he has any right whatsoever to fence, block, trap, or otherwise create hazards or impede a person's ability to freely travel down a Right of Way, had best consult a defense attorney first.

    Back to the example I used of a section line survey trail out in the middle of nowhere: As I said, those are often trapped, and where I have encountered them being trapped they were always clearly signed, with something like "Trapline; Joe Bob; Phone number 555-1212; Traps and snares IN THE TRAIL; Please use bypass trails!". Now, as I said, when a guy goes about business like that, it shows respect, and thus garners respect within the community. The trapper's not taking a position of arrogance, because he's smart and he knows he can't legally prevent people from using the trail, so he's asking for cooperation. And because he's respectful, the local community gives cooperation. But, the entire relationship depends on mutual respect and trust on the trappers part; he's taking a risk, because he has absolutely NO right to impede travel in a Right of Way, and he knows it. If someone missed his signage, or especially if the trail was not clearly signed, or someone otherwise somehow ran through one of his sets in the Right of Way and was injured or incurred damage and chose to sue him for everything he was worth, he doesn't have a legal leg to stand on.

    As with the OP's example of somebody trapping within a constructed highway/roadway Right of Way, that's just plain stupid. It's not even worth further comment.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    trap which I stepped in..., thereby endangering my safety,...
    These are your words taiga. Unlike dogs, I can find no record of a person being harmed by a trap whether inside or outside of a ROW. Even with the great amount of trapping that occurs in the majority of states and provinces, I can't find any occurrence to substantiate your contention. That is why I asked if you knew of any actual cases.
    Your comments regarding signs, respect, etc are well taken.

  13. #13
    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by extrema View Post
    Unlike dogs, I can find no record of a person being harmed by a trap whether inside or outside of a ROW. Even with the great amount of trapping that occurs in the majority of states and provinces, I can't find any occurrence to substantiate your contention. That is why I asked if you knew of any actual cases.
    Sounds like you're trying to work around the point. The point is not whether or not such a case has been tried; the point (my "contention", if you like) is that if such a case were to be tried, the trapper would lose. And to imply that because a typical foot hold set generally poses no serious threat to an adult human, or that a lack of readily apparent existing case law somehow makes it ok to trap within a public Right-of-Way, is false logic.

    Let's say My wife and I are riding snowmachines down a ROW and one of us sticks an arm out to point at something up ahead, and runs that arm through a wolf neck snare... Again, we are traveling in, and have the legal Right of Way.... Again, Right-of-Way, or Right of Way, means the legal right to travel through that designated corridor, by any legal means we so choose. We can crawl on our hands and knees, if we so choose. Anything done to impede or endanger such travel is contrary to that legal right.

    Back to the OP's example, if I step out of my vehicle to take a leak, and I (or maybe my 4 year old kid) step in a trap within the Right-of-Way, I'm taking it home with me. If it's tagged, the owner is going to hear from me. If he thinks his activity within the ROW was legal, and he wants to pursue me for theft of or disturbing his trap...I say bring it on. I would counter claim for obstructing my Right-of-Way, and placing me/mine in danger. The burden won't be on me to prove I incurred injury, only to point out that the possibility of injury existed, and that his activities served to impede my legal Right of Way (that right there; the fact that my legal Right of Way was impeded or potentially impeded by his activity makes his activity, by definition, illegal with the Right-of-Way corridor).... How's that going to turn out?

    Further, and tangentially: A Right of Way only guarantees right of passage across a given piece of land. It does NOT provide any other activity rights; such as to hunt, fish, or trap that land. So if you're trapping within a ROW within a piece of land upon which you don't otherwise have the right to trap, then you're in double trouble.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It
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  14. #14

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    Keeping it real here, the issue is loose dog being trapped, not people being trapped.

  15. #15
    Member c6 batmobile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by extrema View Post
    Keeping it real here, the issue is loose dog being trapped, not people being trapped.
    I didnt have my dog with me. Just posing the issue because it could be an issue. A small child may not be wary of things like this either. It is not beyond a possibility that a child of say 4 or 5 could get 10 ft off the road and step into a trap. My son is almost 5 and when we stop roadside I let him run off the shoulder of the road to do his thing. I supervise but I dont stand right behind him as he is capable of aiming and taking care of his own business. If I were to let him step off and take care of business and he landed in a trap you had better believe I would make my very best effort to track down the owner of said trap and let him know how I felt.
    Makin fur fins and feathers fly.

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    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    I'll say at the beginning that I am not anti trapping in any sense of the word. I occasionally trap and will undoubtedly do so again.

    But I totally get what c6 is saying.... 3 weeks ago we were out calling and found a 330 Conibear in a milk crate cubby wired to a tree and set with a grouse carcass. Literally, 5' from the road surface. That's a powerful trap, one that could easily kill my bird dog when I let him out to take a leak (even on a lead!), or snap a kid's arm. The set wasn't marked at all, in any manner- no ribbon, no flagging...nothing.

    Matter of fact, we didn't even see it until we came back to the truck in the daylight. All three of us walked within a few feet of it that morning and never saw it.

    That's not the first time I've found traps on the immediate roadside. I spend a lot of time roaming around the woods and I've never found a set out in the boondocks that I didn't put there. It's always right there on the road or the trailhead, often unmarked and more often than not- in a rec area.

    I've got no beef with trappers who run lines out in the boonies, but it appears those guys are a dying breed being replaced by the convenient roadside trapper.
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

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    Quote Originally Posted by extrema View Post
    These are your words taiga. Unlike dogs, I can find no record of a person being harmed by a trap whether inside or outside of a ROW. Even with the great amount of trapping that occurs in the majority of states and provinces, I can't find any occurrence to substantiate your contention. That is why I asked if you knew of any actual cases.
    Your comments regarding signs, respect, etc are well taken.
    Here's a record: I pulled over at Upper Summit Lake in Turnagain Pass on the pullout at the south end of the lake to urinate. I walked eight feet off the highway asphalt to the first alder. As I took my next step something prohibited my left foot from moving and I went down to the ground twisting my ankle and popping my ACL, it was a snare. I have nothing against trapping and frankly it's something I want to try, but I've been hurt four different times by lazy people and this was just one of them. I can recant the three others if you want "for the record".
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    "Questionable Ethically?" There's no question about it. Some weekend warrior is an idiot.
    Hunt Ethically. Respect the Environment.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by FishGod View Post
    I've been hurt four different times by lazy people and this was just one of them. I can recant the three others if you want "for the record".
    I'm all ears.

  20. #20

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    Hodgeman the situation you describe with the 330 sounds like more of an issue to me than what c6 described as a small trap.

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