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Thread: Alternatives to Expedition Sport?

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    Member ChugiakTinkerer's Avatar
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    Default Alternatives to Expedition Sport?

    Looking for a second machine to supplement my 2016 Expedition LE with the 900 ACE engine. I read the recent thread by pa12drvr and think that his planned uses and mine are very similar. Mostly going to be travelling to cabin property near Lake Louise, with the occasional trip hunting, fishing, and exploring. My Expy LE is slated to be the workhorse for heavy towing but I want a second machine that I can reliably tow 500 - 750 lbs with.

    I wouldn't mind another Expedition with the wide track, but they are pretty expensive new and totally unavailable on the used market. So I'm looking at the Sport version, and I have a preference for the 4 stroke motors. The reason I'm posting is that I'm still undecided about buying new, as even the Sport models have a big price tag. My question to the forum is there an alternative to the Expedition Sport ACE that would be a close match to what I want for a second machine? Two up seating will be needed, but doesn't have to be factory.

    Edit to add: I'm not a SkiDoo brand fanatic, but they seem to have the most selection in the touring/utility line.

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    The desire for a 4-stroke automatically puts you in a higher price range. Cheapest are the carbureted 2-strokes. Look at Arctic Cat Bearcats. New this year (I think), they have a version with a 700cc 4-stroke EFI engine for about $10K.

    Back to the SkiDoos, the Skandics are a little cheaper than the Expeditions. The Tundras are cheaper than the Expy Sports.

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    Member ChugiakTinkerer's Avatar
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    Thanks NRick for the suggestion on the AC. Will look into it.

    My concern about a Tundra is that I may find it too tippy. Or my bride and kids will. There's a very detailed comparison of the Tundra LT to the Expedition Sport over at Dootalk. I've looked at and considered the SkiDoo line pretty well, but need to take a longer look at the other manufacturers.

    Edit to add: Here's the Bearcat you mentioned - http://www.arcticcat.com/snow/sleds/...arcat-3000-lt/

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    Member ChugiakTinkerer's Avatar
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    Arctic Cat has that 700 cc engine in the Bearcat 3000 and Pantera 3000 models.

    Pantera 3000 is listed in CL at $8999 here

    Pantera is the successor model name for the TZ1. Anyone have any experience riding either of these in a 4 stroke?

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    Member SusitnaAk's Avatar
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    As stated the two strokes are bit cheaper,also they start when the temp dips on you. When it gets down to -30 below you will have to start thinking how too pre warm that 4 stoke up, Some will pull the batt at night, I have used a space heater for the task. I have also installed a block heater and batt warmer now. I have only used them a couple times, but only takes once for me. This is with a Swt v-800. My old Polaris 488 2stroke will fire right up.Just a thought .

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    Member ChugiakTinkerer's Avatar
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    Ya, I'm mindful of the lack of recoil start. Weighing the costs and benefits of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SusitnaAk View Post
    As stated the two strokes are bit cheaper,also they start when the temp dips on you. When it gets down to -30 below you will have to start thinking how too pre warm that 4 stoke up, Some will pull the batt at night, I have used a space heater for the task. I have also installed a block heater and batt warmer now. I have only used them a couple times, but only takes once for me. This is with a Swt v-800. My old Polaris 488 2stroke will fire right up.Just a thought .
    I have a Yamaha RS Venture GT with 1000cc 4 stroke that I have the block heater, battery heater and on-board battery charger.
    I plug it in @ -20 as it has difficulties starting when it gets much colder than that.
    I have heard nothing but good things about SkiDoos ACE 600 motors though.
    If I had to buy a new sled I would probably look closely at sleds running that motor.
    The Expedition Sport looks like a good fit.

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    Get a 600 powered wide track expedition, little spendy new but the resale is great, we sold a 2010 with 4400 miles for 8k this fall, and im selling my 2011 this next fall for the same price with 4k miles probably. The 600 etec goes much farther than the narrow tracks, and rides great. Great mileage too. Im heading over to the expedition extreme next winter.

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    Member ChugiakTinkerer's Avatar
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    Well SWMBO decided to spend her money on the Pantera. While we were at Big Lake Arctic Cat I picked up a Husqvarna 240 saw with 14" bar, so I'm happy no matter how the snowmachine purchase turns out.

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    Alaska Mining and Diving had a new previous year Skandic 20" with the 600Etec (fantastic engine) on the floor for under 10K the last time I was in there.

    The Pantera you listed above must have a Yamaha motor. The TZ1's used to come in two flavors.. the 570 two stroke and 1100 four stroke. Both were good machines. I have no clue how good the 700 four stroke is, but the chassis is a good one. Probably as comfortable of a chassis that is on the snow with great wind protection..which Skidoo doesn't have any more.
    Bunny Boots and Bearcats: Utility Sled Mayhem

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKDoug View Post
    ... Probably as comfortable of a chassis that is on the snow with great wind protection..which Skidoo doesn't have any more.
    To be honest I think it was the heated seat that clinched the deal.
    Keepin' Momma Happy is my number one rule as we embrace snowmachining and winter fun, so I'm glad she found a machine that keeps her excited.

    I am nervous about this 700 cc motor, seeing as this its first year in the Arctic Cat snowmachines. I did read a little about it in this article: http://www.arcticinsider.com/Article...at-Snowmobiles

    which has the following to say
    The newest clean-technology C-TEC4 4-stroke engine delivers 65-hp-class power in a new Pantera and Bearcat platform for 2016. Its a liquid-cooled 700cc parallel twin engine that was designed by Arctic Cat and is manufactured by Kymco the same engine powering the Wildcat Trail and Sport UTV models. It features a closed-loop EFI system and four valves per cylinder, with an engine management system that eliminates engine braking and that delivers optimal performance at all temperatures and altitudes.

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    To gently nudge the thread further off-topic: I've heard rumors that the ETEC engines are meant to be dealer service only? and/or that changing a plug is a 2-hour ordeal?

    I looked at the remnants at AK Mining and Diving (before the rain chased me home the other day ) and while the prices would pique one's interest, I didn't get into negotiations based on the rumors about the E-TEC engines.

    ???

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    Member Grayling Slayer's Avatar
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    You can buy used Yamaha 4-strokes all day long for under $3,000. I love my Apex. I get all the economy and reliability of a 4-stroke and it has tons of torque and 150 hp when you want to race across the lake.

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    Most of the E-tecs don't need a lot of maintenance. The plugs on an E-tec are directional, meaning that the spark plug has to be oriented properly. The spark plug gap has to face the injector. OEM plugs are built so that when you properly torque them, the orientation is correct. Aftermarket plugs can be used as well. Once you know how they are to be oriented, a set of washers that are different thicknesses is used to reorient an aftermarket plug. Mark the old plugs before you pull them out to verify....
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    Getting to the plugs is easy on the etecs. Changing them is easy, and the exhaust sliders are easy to pull and clean, thats everything you need for maintenance. I've done 10k+ miles on the 2011 and newer etecs and never had one quit or not start for me. The crank bearings are sealed just like some of the sdi's and older sleds, so don't let it get hot hot. The injectors eventually need changing, but i've never had one need that yet. I think its the best motor since sliced bread. Just remember to change your gearbox oil often.

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    Member akriverunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChugiakTinkerer View Post
    To be honest I think it was the heated seat that clinched the deal.
    Keepin' Momma Happy is my number one rule as we embrace snowmachining and winter fun, so I'm glad she found a machine that keeps her excited.

    I am nervous about this 700 cc motor, seeing as this its first year in the Arctic Cat snowmachines. I did read a little about it in this article: http://www.arcticinsider.com/Article...at-Snowmobiles

    which has the following to say
    The newest clean-technology C-TEC4 4-stroke engine delivers 65-hp-class power in a new Pantera and Bearcat platform for 2016. Its a liquid-cooled 700cc parallel twin engine that was designed by Arctic Cat and is manufactured by Kymco the same engine powering the Wildcat Trail and Sport UTV models. It features a closed-loop EFI system and four valves per cylinder, with an engine management system that eliminates engine braking and that delivers optimal performance at all temperatures and altitudes.
    The Kymco 700 is one hell of a motor! I don't think you'll be disappointed.


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    As for the Tundra being tippy, somebody in Canada has a ski widening kit for sale. I found them mentioned on Trapperman and found them on E-bay. Looks like a simple but stout bolt on system. For breaking trails especially through the trees, I like the narrow stance. For a long distance run, a more stable platform would be good. I think the cost was about $150? Wish I remembered the name on the kit.
    Is there anything in the Polaris line up that is:
    1- 4-stroke
    2- similar to the Tundras
    for me, a tundra or the 440 Skandic LT are about right. Not sure I want a bigger machine, at least for now.
    ARR

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    Member ChugiakTinkerer's Avatar
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    It looks like the closest Polaris sled to a Tundra is the Indy Voyageur 144. It only comes in 550 fan and 600 liquid cooled.

    I was out yesterday on my Expedition LE 900 ACE and got it stuck in a little hole between a stump and a bare icy mound. It's not impossible to horse the thing around, at least the back end. I was able to move the track sideways about six inches, enough to turn the skis past the stump. I don't think I could have moved the front at all though. A lighter sled would have been a lot easier to move in that spot, and a Tundra probably wouldn't have even gotten stuck in the first place.

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    Member cod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChugiakTinkerer View Post
    It looks like the closest Polaris sled to a Tundra is the Indy Voyageur 144. It only comes in 550 fan and 600 liquid cooled.

    I was out yesterday on my Expedition LE 900 ACE and got it stuck in a little hole between a stump and a bare icy mound. It's not impossible to horse the thing around, at least the back end. I was able to move the track sideways about six inches, enough to turn the skis past the stump. I don't think I could have moved the front at all though. A lighter sled would have been a lot easier to move in that spot, and a Tundra probably wouldn't have even gotten stuck in the first place.

    Question....... Am I correct that all the new machines have a "reverse" gear on them nowadays? I assume yours has reverse, Tinkerer? I have been in that 'ice' and 'stump' situation before. I carry an endless rope come a long for those very few times I get my 750 pound Skandic stuck and it never failed me, yet.
    Your sarcasm is way, waaaayyyyyyyy more sarcastic than mine!

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    While I don't know about "all" new machines, but reverse has to be on at least nearly all. Ones with 2-stroke motors will have electronic reverse - push a button and the engine stops briefly and then begins to run spinning the opposite direction. Hit the throttle and off you go in reverse. The 4-strokes have a gear box and a lever of some sort you pull to engage reverse.

    We got my wife a new Expedition Sport 900 ACE this year. It has an articulating suspension at the rear of the track which allows the back of the track to lift a little bit when backing up. It makes a noticeable difference on being able to backup on soft snow without the track trying to dig itself down as you reverse. I was skeptical of the usefulness in the showroom but it turns out to work pretty good.

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