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Thread: I fought the law and... I won

  1. #1
    Member Akheloce's Avatar
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    Default I fought the law and... I won

    I've waited until the conclusion of this incident to post here, and it came today.

    On New Year's Eve, I was pulled over in Cooper Landing for "no trailer lights". They were working, but that is neither here nor there.

    The Trooper was polite and courteous, and explained that this stop was due to increased enforcement and visibility during the holiday. I informed the Trooper that I had firearms (within reach of me), and he secured them for the duration of the stop. One of the firearms, an AR style pistol, was fitted with a Sig Saur forearm brace. Those of you who are interested in such things know that it is a firearm brace, which to some, look like a butt stock. However, it has been approved by the ATF as long as it is used as designed, and not shouldered. The Trooper let me go during the traffic stop with only verbal warnings, and was again, very courteous and professional.

    The Trooper took a picture of it, and showed it to an AST firearms instructor. 2 days later, he called me back, and sternly informed me that the brace installed was illegal, and I needed to remove it or face seizure and possible arrest. He said "I don't care what letters you have from the ATF, it's illegal" (paraphrased by me).

    Feeling myself on solid legal ground, I wrote a letter to the SOA AG, and the DPS commissioner explaining my case, and asking (politely) what the opinion of the SOA was.

    To their credit, a LT in the AST (FWP) called me and assured me he would look into it... Today said Lieutenant called to inform me that I was right, and education of the troopers would be forthcoming.

    I would advise anyone with said Sig Brace to carry a copy of the ATF letter with them to alleviate any future questions.

    Although I have to admit I was very frustrated with the troopers at first, I applaud their leaderships' willingness to follow through and get to the right answer.
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    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Do you have a photo? No, silly, not of the trooper, but of the device itself?
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    Member Akheloce's Avatar
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    Member Akheloce's Avatar
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    Default I fought the law and... I won

    To be fair, there are idiots on social media showing videos of them shooting it from the shoulder, making the ATF second guess their ruling. I'm 6'3" and it is way too short for that. It works great off the forearm to produce decent groups at 50 yards plus

    Also, that above pic shows a vertical fore grip which I believe is illegal.
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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    That brace on my mares leg would make it easy to shoulder. I can shoulder it now with one inch pad and practice at 6' age shrink. I do think the batf&e are going to try and remove the arm brace from being legal which is silly. The longer the gun the harder to hide.
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    It's as big as a stock and surely could be used as one, so why not just use a rifle with a stock?

    And the law that makes it illegal or legal, and necessitates a ruling by a government agency,,,, Whatta Waste.

    No wonder they call us Gun Nuts.

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    But wait. You were pulled over for non working lights that were working. Do tell more. I had a similar experience a few years ago and even got a ticket for a light that was working.
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    Member Akheloce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    It's as big as a stock and surely could be used as one, so why not just use a rifle with a stock?

    And the law that makes it illegal or legal, and necessitates a ruling by a government agency,,,, Whatta Waste.

    No wonder they call us Gun Nuts.

    SOTN
    Huh?

    I'm not too good at frontier gibberish, even if authentic. Care to rephrase?

    Are you asking why have an AR pistol? There are lots of reasons, one of which is that mine has an 8" suppressor on it. Ever try to use a 24" barrel firearm as your nightstand gun?

    I have lots of firearms, all in different configurations for different reasons. I'm also 6'3", that brace sure is short for me to use as a buttstock.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeRoss View Post
    But wait. You were pulled over for non working lights that were working. Do tell more. I had a similar experience a few years ago and even got a ticket for a light that was working.
    Saw the trooper pull out behind me, and noticed that my side marker lights were on on my trailer. Trooper pulled me over and said "I pulled you over because your trailer lights weren't working, but I see they are now." It was daylight, about 2pm ish
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akheloce View Post
    Saw the trooper pull out behind me, and noticed that my side marker lights were on on my trailer. Trooper pulled me over and said "I pulled you over because your trailer lights weren't working, but I see they are now." It was daylight, about 2pm ish
    I was stopped in the road using binochs on some moose during bow season. Island Lake Rd. Tropper goes by the other way. Fast U turn and pulls me over. I was back under way by then. When I asked why he pulled me over, he said my brake light was out. I asked which one. He couldn't remember so walked back behind my truck and had me apply the brakes. "Right One" he says and wrote me a ticket. After he left I had my grandson stand behind the truck. Yup, all working. I went straight to the court house and got it signed off. Next went to dispatch to talk with a supervisor. Said what I thought of the offocer. Supervisor says, "I've known officer X for a couple years now, and I think he's a pretty good guy". I replied with, I've known officer X for about 1/2 hour, and I have a very different opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akheloce View Post
    Huh?

    I'm not too good at frontier gibberish, even if authentic. Care to rephrase?

    Are you asking why have an AR pistol? There are lots of reasons, one of which is that mine has an 8" suppressor on it. Ever try to use a 24" barrel firearm as your nightstand gun?

    I have lots of firearms, all in different configurations for different reasons. I'm also 6'3", that brace sure is short for me to use as a buttstock.
    No gibberish there, I'd need more inspiration for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeRoss View Post
    I was stopped in the road using binochs on some moose during bow season. Island Lake Rd. Tropper goes by the other way. Fast U turn and pulls me over. I was back under way by then. When I asked why he pulled me over, he said my brake light was out. I asked which one. He couldn't remember so walked back behind my truck and had me apply the brakes. "Right One" he says and wrote me a ticket. After he left I had my grandson stand behind the truck. Yup, all working. I went straight to the court house and got it signed off. Next went to dispatch to talk with a supervisor. Said what I thought of the offocer. Supervisor says, "I've known officer X for a couple years now, and I think he's a pretty good guy". I replied with, I've known officer X for about 1/2 hour, and I have a very different opinion.
    He was just doin his job. Writing tickets.

    Did they let you file a written complaint?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    It's as big as a stock and surely could be used as one, so why not just use a rifle with a stock?

    And the law that makes it illegal or legal, and necessitates a ruling by a government agency,,,, Whatta Waste.

    No wonder they call us Gun Nuts.

    SOTN
    Firearms laws are stupid, inconsistent, and utter hogwash in most cases. Most of them are written by people who barely know what an gun is, let alone what makes them more or less likely to be used by criminals. Like the famous "shoulder thing that goes up" line from Carolyn McCarthy (D-New York). Or the "30 caliber clip" "ghost gun" "30 magazines in a half second" gobbledeegook from De Leon (D-California). They make laws based on being idiots. So why should we think the laws are going to make sense?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
    Firearms laws are stupid, inconsistent, and utter hogwash in most cases. Most of them are written by people who barely know what an gun is, let alone what makes them more or less likely to be used by criminals. Like the famous "shoulder thing that goes up" line from Carolyn McCarthy (D-New York). Or the "30 caliber clip" "ghost gun" "30 magazines in a half second" gobbledeegook from De Leon (D-California). They make laws based on being idiots. So why should we think the laws are going to make sense?
    Yes indeedy, and look at all the efforts required to comply with the laws. The rulings, and the intrepretations, which are never clear.

    I seriously doubt if more than a small fraction, and probably none, of these laws have had any beneficial effect.

    They are a monumental waste of time, and money, and an infringement on our constitutional rights.

    I dunno why there are not efforts to repeal some of the more ridiculous ones.

    Things CAN change. I remember when CC was proposed in AK back in the early 70s. The idea didn't have a chance. You'd have thought it was about legalizing murder.

    But, Now, we have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    Yes indeedy, and look at all the efforts required to comply with the laws. The rulings, and the intrepretations, which are never clear.

    I seriously doubt if more than a small fraction, and probably none, of these laws have had any beneficial effect.

    They are a monumental waste of time, and money, and an infringement on our constitutional rights.

    I dunno why there are not efforts to repeal some of the more ridiculous ones.

    Things CAN change. I remember when CC was proposed in AK back in the early 70s. The idea didn't have a chance. You'd have thought it was about legalizing murder.

    But, Now, we have it.

    SOTN
    The best example of gun laws that do nothing beneficial is the 1994 Clinton "assault weapons" ban that lasted 10 years. Not only did studies show that the ban did little to reduce crimes committed with scary looking gun parts (the ban was purely cosmetic in nature and had no impact on function) what was later determined was that criminals actually increased their access to scary gun parts and terror inducing magazines. Or to put it bluntly, the ban had the opposite effect. But it also happened during a period when overall gun violence was already starting to drop, ban or not. In fact since 1993 gun violence is down 49% according to Pew Research. And it has been a generally downward trend since as early as 1989, well before the AWB went into effect. After the AWB ended the DOJ reported in 2013 that when a firearm was used in crime, only "2% of state inmates and 3% of federal inmates were armed with a military-style semiautomatic or fully automatic firearm". The vast majority of crimes involving guns are committed by gangs (either drug or simple gangs) and are committed with handguns. Has been that way for decades. Any attempt to restrict scary black rifle parts can AT BEST only reduce 2-3% of crimes. And that's assuming it's 100% effective. But the past has shown that in times of bans, criminals have MORE access to scary black rifle parts than when they are not banned.

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