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Thread: Engaged in the business of........

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    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Default Engaged in the business of........

    Here is a quote from the whitehouse website:

    Quantity and frequency of sales are relevant indicators. There is no specific threshold number of firearms purchased or sold that triggers the licensure requirement. But it is important to note that even a few transactions, when combined with other evidence, can be sufficient to establish that a person is “engaged in the business.” For example, courts have upheld convictions for dealing without a license when as few as two firearms were sold or when only one or two transactions took place, when other factors also were present.

    With potentially more ATF agents and correlated funding on the way, are we in trouble?
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    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    I don't think so. If someone in my neighborhood buys a firearm from me, no one is going to know except the two of us anyways.

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    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    The more I read about this, the more I firmly believe this was chest thumping to solidify the Democrat base for Hillary. Unfortunately it is going to have the opposite effect and solidify the Republican base against it by whatever candidate chooses to speak up. I see Cruz is already rallying against the EO's.

    The EO's only prove to me that the executive branch knows zero about how the process already works. The truly scary part of the EO's is the new mental health and gun safety requirements.

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    I think interpretation of that could be the scary part. For many municipalities it is required to have a business license if selling items mean't to bring a profit to the seller.....as if anyone wants to take a loss on something! My understanding of local regulation is selling more than 4 used cars in a year requires a dealership license as well. If any government was to have a similar view of what was defining a business it could become quite blurred. I think as Dave does....

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    So someone who started collecting as a youngster, and now has no use for it anymore must become a business to sell it. Let's just pretend they were talking about coins or stamps. You've collected them since childhood. Now it's time to sell. Guess what, You're a coin dealer, or a stamp dealer and need a license. What a joke.
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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKDoug View Post
    I see Cruz is already rallying against the EO's.... The EO's only prove to me... The truly scary part of the EO's...
    As of this time, no such EO exists. Just say'n.

    Carry on.
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    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    As of this time, no such EO exists.
    It will exist in the somewhat near future I assume. So concern about it is warranted.

    I'm concerned less about the EO and more about funding and new agents. if only 2 guns could be construed as potentially engaged in the business, new agents looking for a bust MAY cast a wider net!
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    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
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    7 hours, 30 minutes.
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    Looks like Wa. state Governor will announce an http://q13fox.com/2016/01/05/gov-ins...ence/Executive Action of his own this week.
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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    It will exist in the somewhat near future I assume. So concern about it is warranted.
    Faced with the reality that the sky was NOT falling, they had to settle for an assumption that it MIGHT fall at any moment...
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeRoss View Post
    So someone who started collecting as a youngster, and now has no use for it anymore must become a business to sell it. Let's just pretend they were talking about coins or stamps. You've collected them since childhood. Now it's time to sell. Guess what, You're a coin dealer, or a stamp dealer and need a license. What a joke.
    Excellent point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    As of this time, no such EO exists. Just say'n.

    Carry on.
    Yeah, he will probably change his mind.

    He will likely repeal all the others, too.

    Shucks, there's no sense worrying about a little thing like the 2nd Amendment.

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    Member akiceman25's Avatar
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    It also states "sold for profit" in which case most(all) of my personal transactions don't qualify.
    I am serious... and don't call me Shirley.

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    IMO Executive Orders should not happen except during a time of war, and only be applicable to war. We (Americans) elect a President. Not a farking King.
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    Member Libertine's Avatar
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    New guidance from BATFE now up:

    https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download

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    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    New guidance from BATFE now up:

    https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download
    Thank you. That should be very helpful in sorting out common questions.
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    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hodgeman View Post
    Thank you. That should be very helpful in sorting out common questions.
    Except as I read it, many of the terms are not defined and should not hold up in court.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    New guidance from BATFE now up:

    https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download
    Pretty wishy washy when there is no set number of gun sales or sales per timeframe that defines/determines when you must have a FFL. Looks like they want to keep it vague and open to interpretation to grab who they want when they want. Theu make guidelines but you can't even follow "the law" because there is no set defining factors to abide by. "For profit" and "regular purchases and sales" are mentioned then in the same breath they say that "as few as one or two sales and other factors may be used to determine intent". Hogwash!
    Great EO guys!

    Let's not forget HB69 signed into law by Parnell... Feds are on their own to enforce this in AK...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    New guidance from BATFE now up:

    https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download
    I note the date on the last page is Jan 2016, so this is the most current info from BATF, the horses mouth, or maybe the other end. Good link. Thanks!
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  20. #20
    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Faced with the reality that the sky was NOT falling, they had to settle for an assumption that it MIGHT fall at any moment...
    End of discussion guys. The sky is not falling as stated by premier supporting member Taiga.
    How can new guidance from BATF be up when no EOs have been enacted?

    However, if anyone wants to discuss the issues raised by Taigas most favored POTUS speech today, feel free to continue..........even if the sky isn't falling!
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

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