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Thread: Difference Between an Air Charter and a Transporter

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by airguide View Post
    NO!I am always Part 135. However registered guides and their assistants can fly under Part 91 when flying the guides clients according to Alaska statute AS 08.54. 610,(c). which states that a registered guide may provide transportation services, personally or through an assistant.
    If you are always Part 135 why do you even have a transporter license?

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by tsunami View Post
    If you are always Part 135 why do you even have a transporter license?
    I wonder that myself sometimes! A Transporter can advertise big game hunting services, such as "drop off hunts" and can charge a package rate rather than have to use a standard hourly rate, also a transporter license gives me the option of wearing either hat. Air Taxis are not allowed to advertise for hunting transportation services, or charge more than the usual tariff or charter rate for the carriage of big game hunters, their equipment or animals harvested by hunters.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by airguide View Post
    I wonder that myself sometimes! A Transporter can advertise big game hunting services, such as "drop off hunts" and can charge a package rate rather than have to use a standard hourly rate, also a transporter license gives me the option of wearing either hat. Air Taxis are not allowed to advertise for hunting transportation services, or charge more than the usual tariff or charter rate for the carriage of big game hunters, their equipment or animals harvested by hunters.
    So, you need the transporter license to "advertise" directly to UNGUIDED hunters" so a transporter can "charge" UNGUIDED hunters more AND then then the transporters are required to operate by Part 135 to actually provide a flight? Right?

    Wow...the way I'm starting to understand this "transporter" licensing thing is that it seems more like non resident and resident UNGUIDED hunters would be far better off to choose to hire an operator who is NOT a licensed transporter?

  4. #44
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Larry, see why I didn't put anything in print on this?

    Anybody care to summarize this mess for the average guy out there? Back to the original question, slightly modified:

    In 25 words or less, what's the difference between an air charter and a transporter?

    -Mike
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  5. #45

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    It would help if someone would layout the history of this........It all goes back the the use of the word "OUTFITTER" by those directly competing with the Hunting Guiding Industry, but without a Guide License. And to appease them for stopping using the word "Outfitter".......they gave an automatic Registered Guides License, and many of them knew nothing about hunting or firearms........zero. They had a river boat, or an ocean boat or aircraft, or horses, and they advertised as "XXX" Guides and Outfitters. They were in the business of dropping off fishermen, and hunters. APHA said, "You need a Guide License to use the word "OUTFITTER".........they say, "No we don't". And at that time they did not, the attorney general said so.

    So after a few years it was agreed, and the law was changed so only Registered Guides could use the word "Outfitter". Well, after they got a free Registered Guides License, and had to start dealing with those laws and regulations. Some said, "The hell with this". We need a "transporter" classification for what we do, and we don't want any of that paper work those Registered Guides have to do.

    YES, I skipped over a lot, but that is the highlights. APHA & the Registered Guides were the BIG looser in that deal.



    Quote Originally Posted by tsunami View Post
    So, you need the transporter license to "advertise" directly to UNGUIDED hunters" so a transporter can "charge" UNGUIDED hunters more AND then then the transporters are required to operate by Part 135 to actually provide a flight? Right?

    Wow...the way I'm starting to understand this "transporter" licensing thing is that it seems more like non resident and resident UNGUIDED hunters would be far better off to choose to hire an operator who is NOT a licensed transporter?

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Strahan View Post

    In 25 words or less, what's the difference between an air charter and a transporter?

    -Mike
    air charter cheaper than transporter

    outfitters only use air charter

    guide is not a transporter or air charter

    transporter license is not a license

    less than 25 words end of story

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by tsunami View Post
    air charter cheaper than transporter

    outfitters only use air charter

    guide is not a transporter or air charter

    transporter license is not a license

    less than 25 words end of story
    Guides can Transport in their own guide use areas, Transporter license is indeed a license, $850 to renew for two years and is issued by the Division of Occupational licensing. I am an air taxi and licensed Transporter, several of my clients are registered guides. I have the ability to charge a package rate but normally fly with my standard hourly rate.

  8. #48

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    Another important thing I for got to mention is that a Transporter is required to have a contract with the client detailing all costs the may occur such as extra flying for getting all your game out of the field or any other costs that may arise, that way there are no surprises at the end of the flight. In other words you know what you will be paying for on your hunt. This is one reason sometimes a package charter is cheaper than the hourly rate!

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    Quote Originally Posted by airguide View Post
    Guides can Transport in their own guide use areas,
    Guides can ONLY transport GUIDED clients. Guides are NOT authorized by the state to transport clients who are only "outfitted". Right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by airguide View Post
    Transporter license is indeed a license
    You are correct. It is a "license" issued by the state that authorizes an air charter operator to charge hunters more than their standard rates.

  11. #51
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    Default Is the whole "transporter" thing even legal?

    The entire "transporter" classification and license is open to a whole lot of legal questions.

    Think about it: The State of Alaska comes up with a program ("Transporter") and tells all federally regulated Part 135 air taxis that if they fly hunters as a part of their service they can no longer market and/or advertise anywhere (print, online etc) that they fly hunters as part of their service ... unless they become a licensed "transporter" and pay a licensing fee and administrative costs. Furthermore, the state says that unless you do this (become a "transporter"), we are gonna tell you how much you can charge for your services.

    How has this not landed in court yet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    The entire "transporter" classification and license is open to a whole lot of legal questions.
    How has this not landed in court yet?
    Yah..for something to make sense (like a law or regulation and to understand how to be compliant with that law or regulation) it needs to be spelled out. Logical, intelligible or reasonable.

    Makes you realize why an air taxi operator actually has probably never even been charged; let alone convicted, of a "transporter" violation since the state has no authority over Part 135 operators?

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    Another good one is that a 135 operator in Alaska can land passengers on the U.S. Forest at will. But if you're a guide, you'll need a conditional use permit to do the same.

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by tsunami View Post
    Guides can ONLY transport GUIDED clients. Guides are NOT authorized by the state to transport clients who are only "outfitted". Right?
    Guides can provide transportation services to unguided hunters in the guides" Guide Use Area."
    You can find this and other useful information on the Professional licensing State website.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tsunami View Post
    Guides can ONLY transport GUIDED clients. Guides are NOT authorized by the state to transport clients who are only "outfitted". Right?
    The guys I used to guide for were registered guides /slash/ outfitters /slash/ air charter operators. They used to fly outfitted hunters that they outfitted as well.....
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

  16. #56

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    Was that in the 80's.............??? Mid 80's

    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post
    The guys I used to guide for were registered guides /slash/ outfitters /slash/ air charter operators. They used to fly outfitted hunters that they outfitted as well.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by airguide View Post
    Guides can provide transportation services to unguided hunters in the guides" Guide Use Area."
    You can find this and other useful information on the Professional licensing State website.
    State statutes can in no way authorize an aircraft operation because; as you know, any aircraft operation is always the exclusive regulatory domain of the FAA. Be it a part 91 operation or Part 135 operation.

    Guides may not provided drop off hunting services to hunters; in their guide use area or otherwise, UNLESS the aircraft and the pilot flying are operating under 135 rules.

    The part 91 rules apply to "guided" hunters only...not drop off hunters.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    The entire "transporter" classification and license is open to a whole lot of legal questions.

    Think about it: The State of Alaska comes up with a program ("Transporter") and tells all federally regulated Part 135 air taxis that if they fly hunters as a part of their service they can no longer market and/or advertise anywhere (print, online etc) that they fly hunters as part of their service ... unless they become a licensed "transporter" and pay a licensing fee and administrative costs. Furthermore, the state says that unless you do this (become a "transporter"), we are gonna tell you how much you can charge for your services.

    How has this not landed in court yet?
    Well said Mark.
    The FEDERAL government has licensed us to provide on demand air service in the state of Alaska (or whatever you have for area of operations).

    Does not say "except for hunters".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Strahan View Post
    Larry, see why I didn't put anything in print on this?

    Anybody care to summarize this mess for the average guy out there? Back to the original question, slightly modified:

    In 25 words or less, what's the difference between an air charter and a transporter?

    -Mike
    From the discussion (so far) it appears that the ONLY way you'll get an answer is to ask a lawyer. And good luck there on getting an answer limited to 25 words.

  20. #60
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    Try running a business in that environment. Everything gets complicated when hunting season opens.

    "No state can make regulation infringing on air commerce regulation. Job of the Federal govt only" Paraphrased.
    Its been upheld literally hundreds of times in court against various states since 1926…..

    AK guide board made a series of regs to "control" Air Taxis as they were controlling other transport types. Its not gone to court challenge.
    The state has muddied up an already very very heavily regulated business. Not to mention the different troopers interpretations.

    -If you purchase a transporter license from the state- the state says that you can charge a lot more and advertise
    -If you don't get the license- you can't do those things. (there again-how does the state legally tell me what to charge or if I can advertise….)

    Don't be surprised when you get different answers from different air taxis. Its silly.
    Tsunami's post is about as good as you'll get < 25 words.

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