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Thread: How is everyone liking their Merril field tie downs today

  1. #1

    Default How is everyone liking their Merril field tie downs today

    How is everyone on a tie down liking the hurricane winds?

  2. #2
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Sir, why on earth would you take pleasure in the damage that might be done to others' planes? Of course occasional strong winds are part of the gig, but seriously...to revel in that makes zero sense.

    Things become ever more clear on why you've had a hard time finding helpful folks in the aviation world.

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    Moderator Adison's Avatar
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    Brian, now don't start picking on our little rppearso! Maybe one day, if you say your prayers each night, you too can own a Pitts, fly aerobatics, and park in a hanger! Then, and only then, you will be able to thumb your nose at the rest of us little aviation guys!


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    Member Erik in AK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Sir, why on earth would you take pleasure in the damage that might be done to others' planes? Of course occasional strong winds are part of the gig, but seriously...to revel in that makes zero sense.

    Things become ever more clear on why you've had a hard time finding helpful folks in the aviation world.
    C'mon Bri...you know Alaska is full of sanctimonious D-B's
    ...and a goodly number of them are members of this forum
    If cave men had been trophy hunters the Wooly Mammoth would be alive today

  5. #5

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    Still loving it. Hurricane?? Peak gust at Merrill was 37mph. Drove by checked the tiedowns, not even enough wind to blow the snow off the wings. Non-issue.

  6. #6

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    Because I am treated like a child for bringing up relevant issues as if my views are crazy and unreasonable .... until they are not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Sir, why on earth would you take pleasure in the damage that might be done to others' planes? Of course occasional strong winds are part of the gig, but seriously...to revel in that makes zero sense.

    Things become ever more clear on why you've had a hard time finding helpful folks in the aviation world.

  7. #7

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    Wrong, I was actually taken back when I started learning that there are so few fellow aviators up there that are willing to go against the establishment. There should be far more hangar space available for everyone and these handful of lease holders should not be able to hold everyone else over a bag. But it seems that's the way people like things up here.

    As brutal and harsh as our climate is I don't know why palmer airport is not wall to wall hangars, there is a lot of political shananigans and establishment obfuscation that is keeping people on the ramp when they should not be. My goal is to light a fire under your guys rear ends.

    800-1000 for one months rent at Merril, seriously everyone is just copusetic with this arrangement. Or the total lack of hangar space in the valley when there is been decades for things to get built up with one of the largest population of pilots in the nation. We have the least amount of hangar availability for the number of plane owners in most of the nation (other than maybe baltamore or some such place). When I visited Washington state there were airports and hangars everywhere.

    I don't know why you guys put up with it, if we all started writing the state and getting pissed things would change, I think it sick that Birchwood is basically a private club with a publically funded strip, why didn't the state mandate that half or more of the airport be zoned for condo rental hangars and as leases can up for renewal just fail to renew them and rip them down to put up high density hangars. Oh wait because the guys there are probably politically connected.

    South central is the most anti competitive place I have ever seen, do you guys really like paying out 5 figures just to get a road on your property platted? How does no one else see this? Do you just hole up in your cabin and hope you can avoid it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adison View Post
    Brian, now don't start picking on our little rppearso! Maybe one day, if you say your prayers each night, you too can own a Pitts, fly aerobatics, and park in a hanger! Then, and only then, you will be able to thumb your nose at the rest of us little aviation guys!


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    [QUOTE=rppearso;1515842]Wrong, I was actually taken back when I started learning that there are so few fellow aviators up there that are willing to go against the establishment. There should be far more hangar space available for everyone and these handful of lease holders should not be able to hold everyone else over a bag. But it seems that's the way people like things up here.

    As brutal and harsh as our climate is I don't know why palmer airport is not wall to wall hangars, there is a lot of political shananigans and establishment obfuscation that is keeping people on the ramp when they should not be. My goal is to light a fire under your guys rear ends.

    800-1000 for one months rent at Merril, seriously everyone is just copusetic with this arrangement. Or the total lack of hangar space in the valley when there is been decades for things to get built up with one of the largest population of pilots in the nation. We have the least amount of hangar availability for the number of plane owners in most of the nation (other than maybe baltamore or some such place). When I visited Washington state there were airports and hangars everywhere.

    I don't know why you guys put up with it, if we all started writing the state and getting pissed things would change, I think it sick that Birchwood is basically a private club with a publically funded strip, why didn't the state mandate that half or more of the airport be zoned for condo rental hangars and as leases can up for renewal just fail to renew them and rip them down to put up high density hangars. Oh wait because the guys there are probably politically connected.

    South central is the most anti competitive place I have ever seen, do you guys really like paying out 5 figures just to get a road on your property platted? How does no one else see this? Do you just hole up in your cabin and hope you can avoid it?[/QUOTE

    I think there's a lot to what rppearso says here. It wouldn't hurt to put a group together and descend on Juneau. Remember, it's the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. When someone finds he cannot move the mountain, he finds that a strong group can move the same mountain to the place it needs to be.

    It was around January of 1957, if I recall correctly, that 100-knot winds whistled around the corner from Whittier and not only scattered light aircraft all over Merrill Field, it actually bent one of three oil storage tanks at Anchorage International. Peeled the sides of all the trailer homes along Muldoon like sardine cans, scattering pink batt insulation all over the mountainside. Even took out the city docks.

    Wouldn't hurt to try to get a group together, if for nothing more than to create a voice that will be heard. IMO . . . . .

  9. #9
    Member Rjusten's Avatar
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    some hangers sure would be nice. even unheated hangers. at least our planes are sheltered. sign me up

  10. #10

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    Have had a plane in the wind tunnel outside for 30 plus years. Point it into the wind, 2 ropes and watch out for the other guy. I'm sure she seen over 100mph gusts.

  11. #11
    Member Music Man's Avatar
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    And who do you think is going to pay for all these hangers?
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  12. #12

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    If they zoned most of the airports as high density t hangar complexes a developer would build a bank and rent them out. Or a group of pilots/owners could pool money. But as it is now there are no leases at merril or birchwood and few leases at Wasilla and palmer (Wasilla sucks anyways lol). The land was poorly planned years ago and I have heard the state just renewed some leases and I don't know how many are coming up. I know Merril is not going to renew the junked out t hangars but what they replace them with is not likely to benefit the little guy air plane owner and they are 10 years out anyways.

    Its MUCH easier to leverage costs for t hangars than everyone building their own cost prohibitive 40x50 or what ever. The only real way to meet the city of anchorages 375k min investment, unless your filthy rich, would be to build a big bank of t hangars like for 10 or more planes that's only 40 grand between the owners. Maybe when they rip those out of code hangars down at merril in 10 years it will create an opportunity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Music Man View Post
    And who do you think is going to pay for all these hangers?

  13. #13
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    There have been 2 - 3 attempts to put hangars in at Palmer.....attempts that I was involved with. One attempt actually built the hangars, although I didn't end up "purchasing". Some of the likely issues that prevent more hangars being built:

    - Ownership structure of the hangars: Have seen a couple of instances where even the Leasehold interest (the most one can get on an airport) stopped at the developer and never flowed down to the individual hangar owner...all the individual had was a "right to occupy": One can't get financing on that, one can't list it as an asset, etc.

    - Profit making enterprise: The developer wanted to leverage the development of hangars as a real estate investment...as opposed to building them and making money by renting space, leasing to businesses, etc. This created unbearably high cost to get a hangar and unbearably high "condo dues".

    If you don't like the situation, first of all, tough. Everyone else operates under the same situation, but hangars were built at every airport you mentioned. Think the land use plan is inequitably structured? Petition the Assembly or Legislature if you'd like. In the times Alaska is in, I doubt it will get much traction unless any new plan can show more funds coming in than the existing one.

    I am personally aware of three items relevant to this discussion:

    1) In the past 90 days, there were two hangars on 15/33 (sorry 16/34) at Merrill that were put up for sale; they sold within days. The market of willing buyer-willing seller clearly exists for the current setup.....the sales price was well above $100k;

    2) In the past 21 days, there was a standing offer to buy any hangar in the above group for nearly $200k. Don't know what happened.

    3) I make pretty good money, but my boss makes a lot more than I do.

    #'s 1 and 2 illustrate that there is a good market for the existing hangar structures on Merrill. If that market is robust, maybe the environment is right to get some financing and see if anyone can be bought out of their existing leases on Merrill or Palmer or Birchwood. Some of those leaseholders might prefer a lump sum payment rather than ongoing fees from the owners association.

    Why is #3 relevant? Sometimes things just don't work out the way we want them to. That's a fact of life that isn't changed by whining and allegations of unwillingness to "go against the establishment".

  14. #14

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    I have wrote the state and city assembly but one guy writing is not going to change anything. If no one else cares then I wont care and I will just stay at wolf lake. I hope no one bought that brown hangar at merril, it only had 10 years left on the lease and the city is going to make people rip them down or do substantial upgrades to meet new city code otherwise they wont renew the lease. I can only imagine what a licenced and bonded contractor will charge to have that done.

    Apparently becoming a licensed professional engineer was the wrong choice of career to even be able to marginally participate in the south central Alaska economy.

    Or just find some advocacy groups to use Merril for housing.

    Quote Originally Posted by pa12drvr View Post
    There have been 2 - 3 attempts to put hangars in at Palmer.....attempts that I was involved with. One attempt actually built the hangars, although I didn't end up "purchasing". Some of the likely issues that prevent more hangars being built:

    - Ownership structure of the hangars: Have seen a couple of instances where even the Leasehold interest (the most one can get on an airport) stopped at the developer and never flowed down to the individual hangar owner...all the individual had was a "right to occupy": One can't get financing on that, one can't list it as an asset, etc.

    - Profit making enterprise: The developer wanted to leverage the development of hangars as a real estate investment...as opposed to building them and making money by renting space, leasing to businesses, etc. This created unbearably high cost to get a hangar and unbearably high "condo dues".

    If you don't like the situation, first of all, tough. Everyone else operates under the same situation, but hangars were built at every airport you mentioned. Think the land use plan is inequitably structured? Petition the Assembly or Legislature if you'd like. In the times Alaska is in, I doubt it will get much traction unless any new plan can show more funds coming in than the existing one.

    I am personally aware of three items relevant to this discussion:

    1) In the past 90 days, there were two hangars on 15/33 (sorry 16/34) at Merrill that were put up for sale; they sold within days. The market of willing buyer-willing seller clearly exists for the current setup.....the sales price was well above $100k;

    2) In the past 21 days, there was a standing offer to buy any hangar in the above group for nearly $200k. Don't know what happened.

    3) I make pretty good money, but my boss makes a lot more than I do.

    #'s 1 and 2 illustrate that there is a good market for the existing hangar structures on Merrill. If that market is robust, maybe the environment is right to get some financing and see if anyone can be bought out of their existing leases on Merrill or Palmer or Birchwood. Some of those leaseholders might prefer a lump sum payment rather than ongoing fees from the owners association.

    Why is #3 relevant? Sometimes things just don't work out the way we want them to. That's a fact of life that isn't changed by whining and allegations of unwillingness to "go against the establishment".

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    Member dkwarthog's Avatar
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    I was peripherally involved with the construction of two new hangars at the Palmer airport. Seemed to me like a pretty easy thing to do, just takes money.

    If you gots money in this world, you gets what you want. Maybe you should jsut build a hangar rrpearso and rent it out. You sound like a big picture kinda guy.

  16. #16

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    Licensing and bonding that the city requires is an issue. I would not mind hiring out arctic fox to put the metal frame building up but I am not paying 15 grand to dig a hole and fill it with gravel or 20 grand to bring a concrete truck in if I build all the forms. That is why I am looking at wolf lake.

    I also do take some issue with a publically funded strip that only rich people can really use.

    Quote Originally Posted by dkwarthog View Post
    I was peripherally involved with the construction of two new hangars at the Palmer airport. Seemed to me like a pretty easy thing to do, just takes money.

    If you gots money in this world, you gets what you want. Maybe you should jsut build a hangar rrpearso and rent it out. You sound like a big picture kinda guy.

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