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Thread: Ar15 vs Mini 14 again😤

  1. #1

    Default Ar15 vs Mini 14 again😤

    I just got done reading an article by the one and only Chuck Hawks. He compared the Mini 14 against the AR15. It was obvious to this reader that he might have been better off saving his breath. It was obvious from the get go that he and his staff do not like either of these rifles. If they were wanting to compare the rifles then that's what they should have done as opposed to making half of the rag about the different tacticool stuff they screwed around with that had nothing to do with the rifles.

    They blasted the 16 inch barrels on both rifles and basically stated that short barrels on any gun shooting the 223 ruined the cartridge. He had nothing in mind from the get go other than to pick apart both guns. He said they were barely suitable for home defence guns and nothing else.

    All I have to offer Chuck Hawks is this. I know a 2 county area smack dab in the middle of the country where those exact guns that he trashed have in the hands of folk who have them mastered taken over a thousand coyotes in the last decade. Yup Chuck advised that if you want a slick handling carbine then you should get a fine lever action.

    This time Chuck got it wrong by a country mile. He might find the Mini 14 clumbsy and unhandy but there certainly have been a lot of them sold to folks who have found them to be very user friendly.

    I liken his article to one I read while waiting in the Drs. Office where a Chinese fella talked about his experience while eating out in America and how he missed his chop sticks. He could have instead berated forks and spoons but one look around told him that just because he wasn't comfortable using them they were still getting it done for a whole bunch of other folk.😯

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    I don't read Mr. Hawks; however, I have both of the rifles in question. I enjoy shooting them both. As my Mini is an older rifle it is a bit less than accurate. Some of the ARs are tack drivers. All of them go bang and put a smile on my face.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonardC View Post
    I don't read Mr. Hawks; however, I have both of the rifles in question. I enjoy shooting them both. As my Mini is an older rifle it is a bit less than accurate. Some of the ARs are tack drivers. All of them go bang and put a smile on my face.
    He really bashed the accuracy of the new tactical Mini-14 and then admitted that they had but one kind of ammo to put to test. What kind of test is that. My latest mini 14 is the exact one that he bashed saying that around 2 inches was what it would do at 50 yards. Harumph! Mine shoots 1 and 3/4 at 100 yards and has killed a good share of coyotes closer to 300 yards. Shooting one at 300 is akin to shooting one point blank with a 22 mag......it's enough!

    I also have a Ruger 556 Ar15. It shoots about like the Mini for groups and that was off the hood of my truck. Hawks kept bring up bolt action guns in his article. No comparison what so ever! I bet that I can put enough little pills down range with either the Mini or Ar and have said coyote killed whist he is messing with his bolt. If I'm calling or spotting and stalking I always use a bolt and most likely in 243. However for jump and run hunting which is the funnest and most productive method(and 100% legal) the Mini 14 and AR15 certainly are the best.

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    It's the political season. Folks feel they have to say something to get noticed. I figure I'll give Hawks a bye on this one.... As in "bye-bye." He wants me talking about his stuff, he better be up to snuff in what he has to say. The riddance is not so good.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    It's the political season. Folks feel they have to say something to get noticed. I figure I'll give Hawks a bye on this one.... As in "bye-bye." He wants me talking about his stuff, he better be up to snuff in what he has to say. The riddance is not so good.
    Me too BB. I always thought hawks was about as unbiased as they came. I have spent many hours with a Mini 14 in hand and have grown quite fond of them so for someone to do a circle jerk test and bash it all to heck irks me a bit. The AR is slowly growing on me. My little Ruger AR has my own personal touches added to it and it feels pretty good. I have a different riser coming for it that hopefully will make it feel warm and fuzzy. Most likely both will be laying in the front seat when the chase starts. Not even I know which one I will grab when yoddle dog zigs left when he should have zigged right and he pops over the hill only to be eyeball to eyeball with the White Durango! Both guns do the bangity bangity bang boom whop about the same. Missed him the first two shots iffen ya couldn't tell.

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    I have never liked the AR guns much but I could warm up to a mini 14 that would shoot 1 1/2 @100 or better. Better yet would be an M1A match. I'm not really a semi auto kinda guy, but I'm also not good enough at running coyotes to think a bolt gun would be the answer. But, we don't have a lot of yotes in Ak anyway and chasing them around the country with anything but an airplane just won't get it. For the most part AK has two kinds of ground, swamp and straight up rock neither one is easy to chase anything on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    I have never liked the AR guns much but I could warm up to a mini 14 that would shoot 1 1/2 @100 or better. Better yet would be an M1A match. I'm not really a semi auto kinda guy, but I'm also not good enough at running coyotes to think a bolt gun would be the answer. But, we don't have a lot of yotes in Ak anyway and chasing them around the country with anything but an airplane just won't get it. For the most part AK has two kinds of ground, swamp and straight up rock neither one is easy to chase anything on.
    Same here on the Mini 14, and the M1A.

    Some guns I never want to own, but can't help but admire.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    30+ years ago the blue minis shot better than the new stainless. Does that still hold true today?
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmerkeithclone View Post
    I just got done reading an article by the one and only Chuck Hawks. He compared the Mini 14 against the AR15. It was obvious to this reader that he might have been better off saving his breath. It was obvious from the get go that he and his staff do not like either of these rifles. If they were wanting to compare the rifles then that's what they should have done as opposed to making half of the rag about the different tacticool stuff they screwed around with that had nothing to do with the rifles.

    They blasted the 16 inch barrels on both rifles and basically stated that short barrels on any gun shooting the 223 ruined the cartridge. He had nothing in mind from the get go other than to pick apart both guns. He said they were barely suitable for home defence guns and nothing else.

    All I have to offer Chuck Hawks is this. I know a 2 county area smack dab in the middle of the country where those exact guns that he trashed have in the hands of folk who have them mastered taken over a thousand coyotes in the last decade. Yup Chuck advised that if you want a slick handling carbine then you should get a fine lever action.

    This time Chuck got it wrong by a country mile. He might find the Mini 14 clumbsy and unhandy but there certainly have been a lot of them sold to folks who have found them to be very user friendly.

    I liken his article to one I read while waiting in the Drs. Office where a Chinese fella talked about his experience while eating out in America and how he missed his chop sticks. He could have instead berated forks and spoons but one look around told him that just because he wasn't comfortable using them they were still getting it done for a whole bunch of other folk.��
    Most of what Chuck Hawks has to say is just regurgitated stuff that everybody knows anyway. No jewels of wisdom there for me.

    I wouldn't base my choices on anything I've ever heard him say.

    There is a publication called "Gun Tests" and I tried a subscription.

    They would test and evaluate different guns for comparison. I swear they must have had a way to find lemons, because most of what they had to say was hard to believe. When it got so bad that it WAS unbelievable, it was time to renew, and I didn't do that.

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    I am quite certain I am wasting my breath here, but oh well. Since they make both 6.8SPC AR's and Mini 14's I think it's a fair comparison. The rifle below was built for $150 more than the list price of a mini 14 6.8 SPC. The fact that the rifle below has a $240 Geissle two stage SSA-E trigger would mean that I could build one of these for $90 less than a Mini 14 with a comparable trigger is amazing. Even more amazing is that this rifle was built entirely by my 14 y.o. (at that time) daughter at our kitchen table. The group in the bottom photo was shot off the bench, sandbagged, at 200 yds by me in under 5 minutes with no time to allow the barrel to cool. It is, by far, the most accurate rifle we own in our household. The beauty of the AR15/AR10 platform is that you can build any number of variations right at home. This keeps it interesting for gun buffs that aren't full fledged gunsmiths.


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    I noticed during the recent Paris attack aftermath (and after the Charlie Hebdo attack) that many of the French police were carrying Mini-14s or perhaps AC556s. I got rid of my Mini-14 years ago, in favor of a AR, but the Mini was a great gun. Shot coyotes and a turkey (hey, it was Texas).

    Sounds like a silly article. I know Ruger played around with the notion, and never brought it to market, but I always hoped they'd come out with their version of the full size M14 to compete with the M1A.

  12. #12

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    I agree 100% and I wasted most of my adult life loathing AR-15 and AR-10 type "TOOLS" and worshiping at the alter of the original Pre-64' Winchesters and Mauser's with converted 3-position wing safety. The "MSR" class of firearms is the most versatile, reliable, field-strip-able, customize-able, tool for most Alaska applications. (But, they are double-butt UGLY).




    Quote Originally Posted by AKDoug View Post
    I am quite certain I am wasting my breath here, but oh well. Since they make both 6.8SPC AR's and Mini 14's I think it's a fair comparison. The rifle below was built for $150 more than the list price of a mini 14 6.8 SPC. The fact that the rifle below has a $240 Geissle two stage SSA-E trigger would mean that I could build one of these for $90 less than a Mini 14 with a comparable trigger is amazing. Even more amazing is that this rifle was built entirely by my 14 y.o. (at that time) daughter at our kitchen table. The group in the bottom photo was shot off the bench, sandbagged, at 200 yds by me in under 5 minutes with no time to allow the barrel to cool. It is, by far, the most accurate rifle we own in our household. The beauty of the AR15/AR10 platform is that you can build any number of variations right at home. This keeps it interesting for gun buffs that aren't full fledged gunsmiths.

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    AKDoug
    Does your 14yr old daughter carry that AR through the woods hunting? It looks a bit awkward not that the Mini 14 is a lot better?

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    I generally try to avoid Hawks. Don't know him personally, but I just don't like his writing even when his notions align with mine.

    That said- I don't really care for either of the guns mentioned. They work and I've had several versions of each.

    The new Mini is supposed to be a vast improvement over the older version- none of the three I had would group at all. They patterned like a shotgun. Still fun to shoot and convenient to carry in a pickup. I smacked a few groundhogs into an early grave with them, but it was a lot luck more than skill.

    I had a couple of ARs that were scary accurate....and a couple of jam-o-matics. The AR is easily a "more consistently accurate" rifle and I gather the newer versions of those are pretty darn good to. Back then, the commercial ARs were mostly either Colt or DPMS for the most part. I liked the Colts a lot better. Nowadays, making ARs is a cottage industry and there are some great ones out there.

    I eventually just lost interest and started shooting better quality bolt guns. If I spent a lot of time predator calling coyotes in heavy dog country I'd probably warm up to them again. I usually just call in singles up here. If I ever pull the trigger on another- it'll be a piston gun like the Ruger 556.
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    AKDoug
    Does your 14yr old daughter carry that AR through the woods hunting? It looks a bit awkward not that the Mini 14 is a lot better?
    She has, without the bipod and the large scope. We have a 2x7 for it on another mount. Takes about 30 seconds to change and it rarely needs more than a couple clicks to sight in. Sling swivel goes to where the bipod is mounted. The whole unit weighs about 8 lbs. Short and handy to carry with the 16" barrel. With the adjustable stock it has grown with her, she's 16 now.

    The biggest downfall of the AR platform is the ability to load one quietly. We, as a family, don't hunt with a round in the chamber. A bolt gun is easy to load fairly quietly, an AR not-so-much. I have no issue loading and sitting with an AR and that's what it gets used for. It get's unloaded when we move. If we're doing a lot of spot and stalk, it's bolt gun time.
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    Those ARs are certainly a Radical Departure from the norm, of what can be considered a rifle. They have so many parts that it is a credit to American ingenuity that they even work. They started with a Varmint cartridge, which makes for a poor Military cartridge when you consider penetration, and the less than needed, terminal performance.

    Back to ingenuity, there have been numerous new cartridges spawned in an effort to overcome the shortcomings of the original cartridge, and of course, they're all short bullet compromises.

    ARs make us think of military combat, police action, and because vertially every agency has ARs and Flack Jackets, now, Government Over-reach, intimidation, and abuse.

    They've been called "Assault Rifles" because of their Looks, and magazine capacities. No matter what, this will not change. Fact is, many folks LIKE Assault Rifles. And that may be the reason they are so popular.

    I spose it's no wonder, then, that the AR Groupies sometimes feel like Victims.

    Had there been the amount of development with the Mini 14, as with the ARs, I don't doubt that the Mini could easily compete with the ARs.

    The Mini does look like a rifle.

    Therefore, it's easier to identify a Mini with hunting than an AR.
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    I believe bad press on the AR will fade away with the Viet Nam vets. I won't change but millions have.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    Those ARs are certainly a Radical Departure from the norm, of what can be considered a rifle. They have so many parts that it is a credit to American ingenuity that they even work. They started with a Varmint cartridge, which makes for a poor Military cartridge when you consider penetration, and the less than needed, terminal performance.
    SOTN
    Acutely Stoner started with 7.62x51/308 in the AR-10 first but was told, found out or something that the military wanted to go with a smaller round. I'm not sure how 5.56 came into it, I mean I don't know if Stoner or the military hatched that bright idea but first reports of it's effectiveness on the battlefield were just glowing, had to be quite inflated. I agree with ya that 5.56 underwhelming but it has seemed to be adequate to get the job done and let guys pack about twice the rounds than 308 . . . But I'd rather have half as many 308 myself because I feel they are more than twice as effective.
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    The current ARs apparently work pretty good and there are a lot of new cartridges made just for the AR to make it more than just a varmit gun. There are a few things I don't like about them as hunting rifles. They don't have a good place to hold them for carrying, I don't like pistol grips on rifles, I won't put a bipod on anything I'm hunting with, scope to stock position is not good they are not light, and I'm not fond of short barrels. They have a bunch of stickyout brush grabbing things on them. Mainly they are not svelte. They are not bad guns but I just can't see myself carrying one through alders chasing elk or mulies. It just doesn't seem like the right tool for the job. The mini 14 doesn't fit that job very well either. I can see using either one as a truck gun for chasing coyotes as being the proper tool.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    The current ARs apparently work pretty good and there are a lot of new cartridges made just for the AR to make it more than just a varmit gun. There are a few things I don't like about them as hunting rifles. They don't have a good place to hold them for carrying, I don't like pistol grips on rifles, I won't put a bipod on anything I'm hunting with, scope to stock position is not good they are not light, and I'm not fond of short barrels. They have a bunch of stickyout brush grabbing things on them. Mainly they are not svelte. They are not bad guns but I just can't see myself carrying one through alders chasing elk or mulies. It just doesn't seem like the right tool for the job. The mini 14 doesn't fit that job very well either. I can see using either one as a truck gun for chasing coyotes as being the proper tool.
    Yup you purdy much summed it up rbuck. It took me years to warm up to the mini14 as a truck gun. If we jump a big alpha male coyote and he gives us the slip then I have been known to grab a 243 bolt gun and go to tracking. I usually send the boys on their way to jump another one. If we have fresh snow I don't walk right in the track but keep sight of the tracks with good glass and try to work the wind. Quite often those big coyotes will find a bowl where they can get both out of sight and out of the wind. Closing the distance means belly crawling the last little ways. I want a light bolt action for this coyote work. Just got a Savage 16 light weight hunter in 243 that weighs less than 7 lbs with 6x scope and ammo. Did have a 4x on it but am so used to 6x that I went back to it. ARs or Minis ill never be used for anything more than a truck gun.

    I've always told everyone that if they picked up a Mini that shot <1.5 MOA they better keep it cuz it's a once in a lifetime rifle. The new tactical Minis with the short pipe are the most accurate Minis ever without spending lots of $.

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