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Thread: NICS and Non FFL

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    Default NICS and Non FFL

    How would a Non-FFL party go about determining if an interested buyer is NOT prohibited by law from purchasing/possessing a firearm?

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    They would run a back ground check with LE Office I would think. Get a copy for you.

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    Nothing stops an average person from calling west Virginia and running their drivers license. I insist on that when I sell. Both before and now with my ffl.

    Your doing nics a favor by keeping a gun out of the hands of an unsavory character.
    "Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science"

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    Ron I don't think that's true, they (NICS unit) make you fax in an application with your FFL# and set up an account and I don't think they will talk to you without the account. Then every time I log onto E-NICS I got to swear I have authority and permission and won't abuse the system by looking up stuff other than for the 4473 background . . . not just running random backgrounds on the guy mowing my lawn or something. They are strict about it and have no sense of humor at all!



    338WM why would you want to background them anyway? There is no requirement to do that at all. Just trust your gut, if they seem hinky and you don't feel good about it walk away from the deal. Your gut is a better indicator than you think, at least mine is . . . I've now run hundreds of NICS checks and my gut has been far more accurate than the FBI's database!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    Ron I don't think that's true, they (NICS unit) make you fax in an application with your FFL# and set up an account and I don't think they will talk to you without the account. Then every time I log onto E-NICS I got to swear I have authority and permission and won't abuse the system by looking up stuff other than for the 4473 background . . . not just running random backgrounds on the guy mowing my lawn or something. They are strict about it and have no sense of humor at all!



    338WM why would you want to background them anyway? There is no requirement to do that at all. Just trust your gut, if they seem hinky and you don't feel good about it walk away from the deal. Your gut is a better indicator than you think, at least mine is . . . I've now run hundreds of NICS checks and my gut has been far more accurate than the FBI's database!
    I know this person and I know they have a record. What I know of it it is non-violent and misdemeanor and I want to be sure it is nothing beyond that, this is someone who is a relation and who's honesty is questionable. Knowing this person as well as I do, I have no qualms about them possessing a firearm as long as they have a legal right to do so.

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    Make them show you a CCW License.

    That way the NICS check has been done. For a private sale I do a copy of the driver's license and the ccw permit and have them sign a bill of sale with the serial number.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZVince View Post
    Make them show you a CCW License.

    That way the NICS check has been done. For a private sale I do a copy of the driver's license and the ccw permit and have them sign a bill of sale with the serial number.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
    They do not have a CCW permit, nor is it a requirement to possess a permit in Alaska in order to carry concealed.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Gun owners hate new gun laws but seem to have no problem making them up themselves. The buyer needs to be from your state,legal age and not a felon very simple questions. State DL/ID cover the first two and ask on felon and you have followed the law without making new ones.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Not looking to hijack (but am), but what beyond asking to see a Alaska license, and asking them if they have a felony on their record, does one need to do when selling privately, am currently looking to sell to an individual.

    Gut says it's okay, and it's a single shot so not like it's gonna get involved in anything crazy, but still want to cover my butt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    Gun owners hate new gun laws but seem to have no problem making them up themselves. The buyer needs to be from your state,legal age and not a felon very simple questions. State DL/ID cover the first two and ask on felon and you have followed the law without making new ones.

    Best answer so far.

    If the buyer passes the resident, age, and felony test AND you still have a nagging feeling in your gut, then go with your gut.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    Best answer so far.

    If the buyer passes the resident, age, and felony test AND you still have a nagging feeling in your gut, then go with your gut.
    I have no problem denying the purchase/sale based on my gut and personal knowledge, but the question still remains.

    How does a Non-FFL determine if a prospective buyer can legally purchase or possess a firearm? Anyone know?

    I answered those qualifications in posts #5 and #7, there is other information there as well. As of yet, I have not received an answer to my question.

    Would you sell a firearm to an immediate family member who has a history of dishonesty, given they meet all the requirements, and answer the "are you a felon?" question with a "no"?

    I will call AST and ask if they can answer the question, unless someone here can offer a definitive answer.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    No,would not have them over for dinner either
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    You could always look them up on court view... free and you can see if ak courts gave him a felony.

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    +1 Amigo Will

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    Quote Originally Posted by .338WM View Post
    I have no problem denying the purchase/sale based on my gut and personal knowledge, but the question still remains.

    How does a Non-FFL determine if a prospective buyer can legally purchase or possess a firearm? Anyone know?

    I answered those qualifications in posts #5 and #7, there is other information there as well. As of yet, I have not received an answer to my question.

    Would you sell a firearm to an immediate family member who has a history of dishonesty, given they meet all the requirements, and answer the "are you a felon?" question with a "no"?

    I will call AST and ask if they can answer the question, unless someone here can offer a definitive answer.
    You are not in any way required to investigate them, you ask and they answer then you ether believe they were truthful or they were not. The law only says if "you have reason to believe they are prohibited" it doesn't say you need to investigate or waterbord the truth out of them.


    But, if you are so inclined to sell anyway because he is likely lying but the family is after you to help, you want the screws to stop twisting . . . so . . . you want a CYA paper trail?? Take them and the firearm to an FFL and have them do a transfer on it. It then goes from you to the FFL's book and buyer must fill out a 4473 and pass a NICS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by .338WM View Post
    I know this person and I know they have a record. What I know of it it is non-violent and misdemeanor and I want to be sure it is nothing beyond that, this is someone who is a relation and who's honesty is questionable. Knowing this person as well as I do, I have no qualms about them possessing a firearm as long as they have a legal right to do so.
    So, a relative who has a record and their honesty is questionable... I would be done right there. But that is just me. It is not important to me to sell any gun to anyone, even a relation, especially if I have ANY question as to their integrity. If you really need to know a persons record, you can look it up on the State of Alaska Court System website, if the conviction happened in Alaska.
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    Ron I don't think that's true, they (NICS unit) make you fax in an application with your FFL# and set up an account and I don't think they will talk to you without the account. Then every time I log onto E-NICS I got to swear I have authority and permission and won't abuse the system by looking up stuff other than for the 4473 background . . . not just running random backgrounds on the guy mowing my lawn or something. They are strict about it and have no sense of humor at all!



    338WM why would you want to background them anyway? There is no requirement to do that at all. Just trust your gut, if they seem hinky and you don't feel good about it walk away from the deal. Your gut is a better indicator than you think, at least mine is . . . I've now run hundreds of NICS checks and my gut has been far more accurate than the FBI's database!
    That's interesting because I sold a firearm before my ffl and I called. They didn't have an issue.
    "Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science"

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    You are not in any way required to investigate them, you ask and they answer then you ether believe they were truthful or they were not. The law only says if "you have reason to believe they are prohibited" it doesn't say you need to investigate or waterbord the truth out of them.


    But, if you are so inclined to sell anyway because he is likely lying but the family is after you to help, you want the screws to stop twisting . . . so . . . you want a CYA paper trail?? Take them and the firearm to an FFL and have them do a transfer on it. It then goes from you to the FFL's book and buyer must fill out a 4473 and pass a NICS.
    Thanks for the answer.

    Nope, not inclined to sell anyway, but the possibility brought me to this question, and I think it legitimate. The overwhelming concern that spawned this thread was the possibility of making the transfer, legally to the best of my knowledge, and then some time down the road this person is found to be in possession of a firearm they actually had no legal right to possess, and it gets tracked back to me.

    One could argue, a prosecutor for instance, that due to my knowledge of the persons proclivity for dishonesty, that the transfer should never have been made and based on that, there is reasonable grounds to prosecute.

    In the same vein, if there is no prohibition toward this person possessing a firearm, then they have as much right as you, or I, to have one. So, once again, my question is equally valid.

    As for the Court View, I had completely forgot that existed, thanks Shayno.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrassLakeRon View Post
    That's interesting because I sold a firearm before my ffl and I called. They didn't have an issue.
    I don't know for sure as I never tried without my account all set up but they are picky as all get out about who they talk to and what info they divulge. As best as I can tell you must be an enrolled FFL or working on behalf of an enrolled FFL with an "Appendix A" filed under that FFL number.



    https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/enroll

    Use of NICS

    • Authorized use of the NICS is limited to the purpose of obtaining information on whether receipt of a firearm by a prospective transferee would violate federal or state law.
    • FFLs, their officers, employees, agents, and/or other representatives are permitted to request background checks of the NICS only for the authorized purpose.
    • Accessing or using the NICS, or permitting access or use of the NICS by another, for any unauthorized purpose is a violation of federal law, sanctions for which may include criminal prosecution; a civil fine not to exceed $10,000, and/or cancellation of NICS inquiry privileges.

    Access to NICS

    • Calls to the NICS Operation Center may be initiated from any telephone including pay and/or cellular phones. However, FFLs should understand the risk of call interception and monitoring when using a cellular phone.
    • When enrolling in the NICS, the FFL will select a code word consisting of six to ten alphabetical and/or numeric characters.
    • FFLs are not required to change their code word; conversely, a code word will remain active indefinitely if there is no request for change. However, FFLs are encouraged to change their code words if they suspect that unauthorized persons have gained knowledge of the code word, or that authorized personnel are misusing the system.
    • FFLs shall limit knowledge of their code word to themselves, their officer(s), employee(s), agent(s), and/or other representative(s) whose duties include performing background checks in compliance with the Gun Control Act, as amended.

    Disclosure

    • FFLs may not disclose the NICS response (“PROCEED”, “DELAYED”, or “DENIED”, and NICS Transaction Number [NTN]) to persons other than (1) the prospective firearm purchaser, (2) the FBI NICS Operations Center (or its) agent or a participating State Point of Contact, (3) ATF, (4) authorized representatives of the foregoing, or (5) others as authorized by law.

    Individual’s Requesting NICS Checks on the FFL’s Behalf

    • Individuals requesting NICS checks on the FFL’s behalf (including FFL officers, employees, agents, and/or other representatives) shall understand and agree to abide by the security guidelines outlined herein. Appendix A is provided as a tool that FFLs may use to document such an individual’s acknowledgment.
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    Member GrassLakeRon's Avatar
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    I agree. I know before my ffl I did it once, pre e-nics. Now when folks know I have an FFL they shy away once I tell them. Saves the call.
    "Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science"

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