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Thread: Freighter Questions

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    Got a couple of questions here. First, I have a Scott/Abitibi Deep Duck 16 that weighs 190 pounds empty. I am planning on coating the bottom with Wetlander for extra durability. It will also make it easy to slide over most surfaces. I am wondering if Me plus another can slide that much weight off my trailer onto a canoe cart, wheel it a couple hundred feet down an inclined smooth path, lift it off and onto the ground, and slide it down about 10' over fairly smooth rocks on a incline into the water. I wheel my Tohatsu down on a two wheel dolly and put it on. Then repeat in reverse when done fishing. I am thinking it is not realistic, and wondering here if anyone does anything like this? I am in decent shape but don't want to throw out my back or get a hernia. Second, assuming not, I am thinking of getting a new Grumman 19 to do the same. That should be easy. But if I am fishing me plus two in mostly class one water at 1-3 mph, how stable is the 19? Can I stand in it with a 700 pound load, or would I want side floats? Last, can I row a little bit with the current from the rear seat, in part where too shallow for the engine, and other times for extra handling?
    By the way I live near the Grumman factory in NY, and I visited it last week. That was very cool. Mostly shut down for the winter but saw and handled lots of new canoes. They have been building them there since 1952.

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    [QUOTE=billfish1984;1512457]Got a couple of questions here. First, I have a Scott/Abitibi Deep Duck 16 that weighs 190 pounds empty. I am wondering if Me plus another can slide that much weight off my trailer onto a canoe cart, wheel it a couple hundred feet down an inclined smooth path, lift it off and onto the ground, and slide it down about 10' over fairly smooth rocks on a incline into the water. I wheel my Tohatsu down on a two wheel dolly and put it on. Then repeat in reverse when done fishing. Second, assuming not, I am thinking of getting a new Grumman 19 to do the same. That should be easy. But if I am fishing me plus two in mostly class one water at 1-3 mph, how stable is the 19? Can I stand in it with a 700 pound load, or would I want side floats? Last, can I row a little bit with the current from the rear seat, in part where too shallow for the engine, and other times for extra handling?

    I don't have a Scott Deep Duck but i bet it's a nice canoe. I would fab up a short narrow tandem axle cart like a micro trailer out of thin wall square tubing- use balloon tires. The big box lumber yards here sell 4' x 4' sheets of 1/4" black polymer alot like uhmw that you can rip and face the top of the cart for effortless sliding. use a ratchet strap or two to secure it. Dont know how steep it is up or down but I use a rope comealong or rope trailer winch where needed.

    If looking for another but lighter canoe I do have opinions I as have several square backs, a Scott James Bay, older Grumman 19', Grumman Sport Canoe/Boat, older Osagian Missorian 17' and Lil-Missourian 16'. The Grumman 19' has what is supposed to be a set of factory side floats that adjust on the fly via opposing threaded rods attached control wheel, it needs them. The 19' is a 20' double end canoe with a foot lopped of the back. It has a 12" wide tramson, short sides and is not too wide. The botton is old school round bottom, bad for initial stability. It paddles decent has beautiful workmanship akin to my 1947 metal wing Luscombe but I'm not going to recommend it----or even like it. My Sport Canoe is of the same family, cut shorter yet but made wider. With its wide transom, wider overall its more stable, faster with an outboard and rows nicely. It still has the shallow sides and a single keel but at 15.5' it stiffer than the 19' that buckles in much rough water while powered. My 19' is placarded for 1100 lbs the Sport 1095 lbs. i like the Sport.

    the Osagian 17' is the one, imho, the 16' has uses but does'nt compare withe 17'. Compared to the Grumman it is wider, deeper, triple keel, 50% wider transom, bottom engineered sponsoons (or?) with a flatter bottom it has great stability at rest and under power, doesnt flex in the rough, doesn't take as much power to atain hulll speed because the stern doesn't dig down as much as the Grumman. Not sure of weights but both Grummans and the Missourian are close in weight, all .050 aluminum, the Osagians have a welded transom. Here in Missouri the Sport Boats and 17' Osagian Missourians are hard to buy used as folks hang pn to them. I think either will work for you though they are different. Good luck!

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    Thanks for the detailed response Rodbolt. Your first one on this forum! Have you launched this much weight down a rocky incline into water?
    I am familiar with the Osagians. The double end canoes have a 3 hp max I believe. The spot I would be using it is heavily patrolled and those canoes are not an option. Likewise the Grumman Sport Boat has a person weight max of about 350 pounds. And I want something to fish me plus two and so that is also not an option. I like the Osagian 17 square stern but the Grumman 19 would seem to be better for three fishermen. It is good to know the 19 does not have strong initial stability. I would be adding side floats from Sail Boats To Go. I used them on another canoe and they work excellent.

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    I should add that my engine is 6 hp.

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    there is no such thing to shallow for the motor, if it floats it will go you, might replace the prop [lots of them], gear box, with a lift.
    long tail don't need
    much water it don't like small streams an has no reverse , it is your choice , but the 6 HP motor need to up grade to a larger one with a slip clutch in the prop no sheer pins to break as it will happen at a time when you can least afford it , just remember you don't have tp go fast all you have to do is go [ beats walking ] SID
    PS the shallower the water the slower you will go , an you will have to stand up whean running in water shallower than about 2 ft so you can see what is up front of you , the rocks are hell on you an the canoe the T keel on a 19 ft grum will bent I assure you I have accomplished it a few times

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    Thanks Sid but I was asking about the stability of the Grumman 19' and the difficulty of getting a heavier canoe to the water from the car. Maybe you meant to respond to the thread on canoe bottom coatings?

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    By the way I cannot remember if I ever posted this link about the Duck Boat (formerly PGS 16), but it might be a nice fit for some sportsmen in Alaska: excellent capacity; great stability; shallow draft; and pretty fast/planing with a smaller engine. I really love it.
    http://www.iboats.com/ScottBoat_pgs_...i108461-y2009/

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    all I can say the bigger the canoe the heavier it will be . the 19 ft Grumman has a flat bottom an it is all metal , the metal can be dragged
    over the rocks a lot more than a plastic or one of the other man made products ,this is over time an time again I think, SID
    PS the 19 FT is a flat bottom but just like any canoe things to think of center of gravity, that is what counts an how far it is above the water line of any caone over time is 10 / 15 years not just one hunting trip , the sport canoe 15 FT is not bad , a little smaller than 19 FT SQ but not bad ,

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    Quote Originally Posted by billfish1984 View Post
    Got a couple of questions here. First, I have a Scott/Abitibi Deep Duck 16 that weighs 190 pounds empty. I am planning on coating the bottom with Wetlander for extra durability. It will also make it easy to slide over most surfaces. I am wondering if Me plus another can slide that much weight off my trailer onto a canoe cart, wheel it a couple hundred feet down an inclined smooth path, lift it off and onto the ground, and slide it down about 10' over fairly smooth rocks on a incline into the water. I wheel my Tohatsu down on a two wheel dolly and put it on. Then repeat in reverse when done fishing. I am thinking it is not realistic, and wondering here if anyone does anything like this? I am in decent shape but don't want to throw out my back or get a hernia. Second, assuming not, I am thinking of getting a new Grumman 19 to do the same. That should be easy. But if I am fishing me plus two in mostly class one water at 1-3 mph, how stable is the 19? Can I stand in it with a 700 pound load, or would I want side floats? Last, can I row a little bit with the current from the rear seat, in part where too shallow for the engine, and other times for extra handling?
    By the way I live near the Grumman factory in NY, and I visited it last week. That was very cool. Mostly shut down for the winter but saw and handled lots of new canoes. They have been building them there since 1952.
    I did a trip like this last fall up on the slope. I run a 17 foot osagian square stern and I purchased the c-tug cart which is not cheap and supposed to be top of the line. I made the hike in pulling the canoe (100 lbs) and a few other items nowhere near the 300lb capacity and the cart broke on a hard packed pipeline road a few hundred yards into the hike. Fortunately, the manufacturer honored the warranty so I got a replacement but I drove 14 hrs away from home to hunt and didn't have a whole lot of alternatives. The plan was to pull the canoe/cart almost a mile and then launch but had to take an alternative route. What you are asking can be done but you will need the right type of cart for the terrain. Your wheels need to be the right size/type. For example, you may not want a cart with inflatable tires if pulling over hard terrain with jagged rocks. You may also need to consider the size of the rocks and determine which style of tires will best fit the terrain. Another aspect to consider is the wheel clearance you will have for the terrain and how much space you will have between the canoe and the wheels. I had issues with the platform rubbing on the wheels at the onset so I had to re-align the canoe for a better fit. When selecting a cart, pay special attention to the platform and how it is secured to the canoe and the cart. My c-tug is made of corrugated plastic but they interlock and the platform connections have a single weakpoint that was over stressed and eventually broke. Hopefully this helps out with the cart. I can't speak on behalf of the stability in the grummans as all I've run is the osagian models. Hope you have a good trip!

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    Reviving this after a year. This has not been urgent as I have a 20' Lund Alaskan and a Scott Duck 16' to keep me busy, but sometimes think about my questions and the excellent responses above. My hesitation about the Osagian was that the second seat was in an inconvenient spot for my needs: I like the front bench of the Scott Duck about 8' in front of the rear bench. This gives room to move around while fishing, without having to keep stepping over a seat. That is the way it is with practically all canoes, and so I have not done anything yet. The Duck is just too heavy for getting into and out of water over some rocks in a particular spot I like. But I happened to call Osagian this week and I learned that the seats can be attached at the factory wherever requested. For example, they could put the second seat 18" forward of the standard position, 20" behind the first seat instead of 38" behind. I could then make a big bench seat out of the two seats like I did by extending back the front bench seat on my Duck. With this I think I can bobber fish three facing backwards in the Osagian for steelhead: one guy sitting on the bow cap; one guy on the bench; and me standing on or near the rear seat. I have stabilizers from Sail Boats To Go which will prevent tipping, and two pairs of oversized wheels that plug in for the portage. I have a Tohatsu 6 hp four stroke and am hopeful that would be enough for three guys going a couple hundred yards against a 2-3 mph river current. The Osagian is to me a slightly smaller version of the Scott Duck (though 1' longer), but about 100 pounds lighter than my modified Duck, and so a great supplement to it for this spot (it is a world class fishery). I love the versatility of both designs. Incidentally Grumman told me the thwarts and seats on the 19' have minimal flexibility on location from the factory. Just thought I would post it here if anyone is interested.

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    Modifications I did to my Duck, extending both bench seats, putting on a bow cap, and adding a floor. For some reason the photo is rotated.



    IMG_7172.jpg

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